Re: Need some advice on love, guys...

OK, I may end up repeating stuff other people have said, but I'd
rather not be influenced by reading their answers first.  Since I'm in
the minority of females around here, it's also a perspective from that
point of view.


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:16:46 +0800, Humbert Humbert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>   It's like this: I met this awesome girl at a club, and we got along 
>like a house on fire. The catch was, she's from another country and you 
>know what they say about long distance relationships never working out.

I think that issue is totally your business.  Some people can make
things like that work and some people can't.  So don't let anyone else
make a judgment about that for you... just be sure to be realistic
about the situation and not fool yourself if it really won't work.
Like is this going to continue this way?  Do you think one of you
would eventually move to be with the other?  Are you serious enough to
even be thinking this direction, or can you sit on it for now and just
see where things lead?  Etc, etc.

>
>   We had only one more day together before she flew off and I'll never 
>forget that day as long as I live. I felt bliss. All the shitty stuff 
>that had transpired in my life did not matter, just for that day.
>
>   It's been nine months since then. In the meantime, I've racked up 
>huge phone bills calling her up and I've flown over twice to spend time 
>with her. That's money I don't have. I'm a conscript in the friggin' 
>Army (Air Force Field Defense, actually) and I'm so broke I don't have 
>two fifties to rub together. If not for my kindly sister's help, I don't 
>know how I would manage. But that's another thread. (Only eleven days to 
>go before I'm released from the draft!)

Maybe just stick to email for a bit until you get another job and are
in a better financial position.  I've always thought email has helped
keep me from missing someone -- I noticed a big difference after I got
email while my brother was still in CA.  Prior to that I hardly had
any contact with him.  I just had a friend move back to Europe after
being here for years and I'm hoping the email will help cause I
certainly can't afford to call her.

>
>   There's always this nagging feeling that I'm not the only guy in her 
>life. She doesn't pick up the phone for days on end and I'll freak out,
>worrying all the while that she's been hit by a truck or something. But
>she always tells me she was just too tired to answer my calls. Yeah,
>she does suffer from anemia, but come on, she's so weak that she can't 
>even send a text message to tell me she's ok and alive, in three whole 
>days?

Three whole days?  Get real.  Life exists, you know?  That's
definitely extremely paranoid.

> And this is a girl who would snap out of sleep to answer her 
>friends' calls in the dead of night.

Try calling in the dead of night. :-)

Seriously, there might be a reason for it, and one reason that pops
into my head is that I'll take calls when I'm tired or asleep if
either a) they're really important (like I'm job hunting so I now
answer calls in the early a.m.) or b) if they seem quick and easy to
take care of.  Are your calls not quick and easy?  Either because you
hang on for a while, or because things get too serious and she doesn't
want to deal with it while tired?  Something of that sort?

Also, perhaps there's times she doesn't answer calls from her friends
or contact them for three days either.  Unless you're living over her
shoulder (and somehow I get the impression you would like to), how
would you even know every detail about how she deals with everyone she
knows?

>
>   Then there are the mysterious text messages she gets on her mobile 
>phone when I'm with her. She always give me this guilty look as she 
>looks at them. I wanted to snoop at her phone when she was asleep, but
>I told myself that I would accord her the same respect and privacy that 
>I would expect from her.

Well, I'm glad for that anyway.  Respect is extremely important and I
don't think any relationship is worth a hill of beans without it.

Is it really a guilty look or are you being paranoid?  If it is a
guilty look, is it because there's something to feel guilty for... or
this reminds me of someone I used to know that I always lied to and
made up excuses about things cause she was just too much trouble.  I
wasn't implying you're too much trouble... just making a point that
you do appear a little paranoid and jealous, and it's difficult
dealing with jealousy.  It can make people feel guilty even when
they're not.  And what does she have to be guilty of?  Do you two have
a committment?  If not, then she can do what she wants.

>
>   But the gnawing feeling is still there. Her stories don't add up.
>She's always changing this or that detail, like that girl in Gibson's 
>"New Rose Hotel". There's this whole backstory that I'm not in on.

I don't get the reference, but I see what you're saying.  So far,
that's the worse thing you've said that sounds fishy.  None of the
stuff above means anything to me in terms of having anything to worry
about.  Changing details can either be a sign of lying, or a bad
memory.  You mentioned below that she's a bit scatter-brained.  Are
they the kind of details that could come from being scatter-brained?
Or do they seem outright fishy?  (And you have to answer that from a
non-paranoid point of view.)

>
>   For weeks, I've been asking her to fly over and spend Christmas with 
>her, but she said couldn't afford it. Then, last Friday, she tells me 
>she's flying to Hong Kong for a trip. Her ex was a Hong Kong national.
>She told me she was going alone, at first. Then she told me she was 
>going with a friend. Then she told me she was going with her family.
>All in the space of a minute. Just a family trip. No biggie. And that I 
>had nothing to worry about.

Is she paying for this trip?  Is it cheaper for some reason that going
wherever you're at?  Did she already have it planned and just didn't
mention it (if she's forgetful)?  I should point out that I'm not
trying to make excuses for her or to convince you there's not a
problem here.  I'm er, doing the opposite of playing devil's advocate
I guess you could say... trying to come up with reasons that could be
logical to give you another side to think about.  So not to convince,
just to make you think.

Not being able to make up her mind who she's traveling with does sound
a bit odd, even if she's forgetful or scatter-brained.  You don't
forget whether you're going alone or not!  Unless she knows you're
paranoid (and apparently jealous) and was attempting on purpose to
steer your mind elsewhere and then forgot what she had said.  Either
way, I don't think that sounds good... on the one hand, she would have
something to hide.  On the other hand, she feels like she has to hide
something even if unnecessary.  It's kind of how lying is never good
in a relationship -- it's always either because there's a reason to
lie, or because the other person makes you feel like you have to lie
anyway.

>
>   Despite my love for her, and I really do love her, alarm bells are 
>ringing in my head.
>
>   It could be that she never calls me because she really can't afford 
>it. Although she comes from a rich family and she can spend all her 
>money on clothes. And cigarettes. And make-up.

People have different ideas about "afford."  Her family being rich is
irrelevant.  Make-up isn't all that expensive.  Forget about the
cigarettes.  When you're addicted to nicotine, that money always comes
first.  Don't get jealous of cigarettes.  (I used to smoke, so I
understand, and you don't just "not smoke".  It doesn't work that
way.)  Now, as for the clothes.  OK, you got me there.  Clothes can
get expensive.  But if she's a typical woman... she might just spend
without thinking.  What it *does* say to me is that a material thing
like clothes seems to be more important than calling you.  Which might
just make her a stereotypical female.  Or it might, unfortunately,
mean that calling isn't important to her.  Or, you keep calling anyway
whether you can afford it or not, so she just lets you.  What would
happen if you told her that you just can't afford it for a while, and
then DON'T CALL, and see if she finally gives in and does...  I know,
scary to find out the consequences.

>
>   It could be that she always comes across as duplicitous because 
>English isn't her mother tongue and it's more than a little difficult 
>for her to say what she means to say sometimes.

Ah, I totally forgot you said this when I was answering some of the
above.  OK, story time, cause I'm very familiar with this one.  My
brother's most recent girlfriend was from Honduras.  She was here a
good year before she met him and never bothered to learn English.
(And don't get me started on my opinion of that... if I moved to
France, I'd expect to have to learn French.  What's so difficult about
that to understand?)  Anyway, she didn't even try that hard to learn
it when she met him.  He got some software to help him learn Spanish,
and would always ask her questions about it, and he'd put letters
through a translator.  She did nothing but learn whatever she happened
to pick up from him.

Well, that really wasn't the point... just a sore point. :-)  Anyway,
I'm *thoroughly* convinced that the language thing interfered with
their relationship and even contributed to the end of a relationship
that was otherwise heading towards marriage.  My brother was
continually making comments about what she would do or say or
whatever, including changing her story about things, and I had to
continually remind him that I didn't think she always knew what she
was saying, or understood what he was saying.  He insisted she knew
English better than I thought, but I can remember seeing them together
and knowing full well that she had no clue what he was talking about,
and would just nod and agree with him.  And he'd try to tell me she
understood.  And she didn't.  There were always "mix ups" going on.  

When they started having a lot of problems, I don't think she
comprehended what they were because she would only understand some of
what he was saying.  He even tried to get her to go to this councelor
from Puerto Rico, not even just for the counceling, but a lot for the
translation, so she could truly understand what he was saying.

It didn't help that her culture is completely different also, but I
don't know if you two have that issue.  I don't think you even
mentioned where she was from.  But keep that in mind too.

That *might* explain some of what seems fishy to you.  It might not.
But it's something to seriously think about.

> And she is a tad 
>scattered-brained and prone to forgetfulness. And I've held her hand all 
>night while she laid drugged on a hospital bed
>on a dextrose drip to compensate for her low energy level. Times like 
>that, about once every week, she can't think or speak straight. I know.

This really could explain a lot.  I've said some pretty weird things
that I didn't even mean when I was half out of it.

>
>   It could be that she only hangs out with meth heads, and isn't a meth 
>head herself. Was at a cool party with her where I was introduced to 
>them. Well, the party was cool anyway until they brought out all the 
>meth cook-out paraphenalia.

Is this normal for her?  Are you saying "It could be because I know
she's only hanging out with meth heads," or are you saying "It's
possible that she's only hanging out with meth heads."  (I'm confused
cause of the way you started the sentence with "It could be..." and
I'm not sure how you meant it.)  If that one party was a coincidence,
fine.  If that's normal, I'd be tempted to either stay away, or talk
to her about it.  (Of course, when one's heart is involved, it's easy
to overlook there things.  I do it.)

>
>   Did I mention that she's a valium addict? She pops them all the time 
>because she suffers from insomnia. Because she misses me terribly. Or so 
>she says.

She says she suffers from insomnia becauase she misses you terribly?
Am I reading this right?  Quite frankly, I find that extremely odd.
Maybe for a short time after you had to leave, but not nine months
later.  I take things really, really hard, but even I'm not that bad.
If the insomnia is serious, she needs to be doing something besides
popping valium and getting addicted.  What quack is prescribing these
anyway?

>
>   Anyway, I had a huge fight with her over the phone about all my 
>suspicions and she just started crying and told me that I was
>being paranoid. I told her I couldn't trust her anymore, with all
>that she doesn't tell me. She's flown to Hong Kong and I don't know if 
>I'll call her when she gets back.

OK, I'm going to be very frank with you here... for your own good I
hope.  There might be something to be suspicious of.  I don't see
anything here that leads me to specifically believe there's other
guys, but if there's no committment, I think it's irrelevant anyway,
and you haven't said anything that leads me to think there's a
committment.  So without that knowledge, I can't make much comment.
But if there's no committment, you have no right to get upset if she's
seeing other guys.

The only thing that "looks suspicious" is how she feels about you, or
doesn't feel about you, as the case may be.  There's a couple of
things that seem fishy, possibly lies, etc.  If there's lies, is she
trying to hide something that would be important to you, or is she a
chronic liar?  (i.e. it might not just be you)  Or is the funny stuff
due to a language barrier, being scatter-brained, etc.?  (I can tell
you some stories about my brother if you need some proof about just
how much that language thing can screw conversations up.)

Now, what I'm going to be frank about is that I once dated a guy who
was very jealous and very suspicious.  It droves me NUTS.  Not only
did it drive me nuts, but it drove a wedge between us and I finally
dumped him completely out of my life cause I couldn't tolerate it
anymore.  I found myself constantly wanting to lie to him just to shut
him up or to keep him from asking 20 questions.  I even made up a
story about getting picked up by two guys one night at a bar... I got
tired of him asking where I was the night before when I didn't answer
the phone.  It wasn't any of his business cause I'm an individual and
I have my own life.  If I wanted to tell him where I was, I would.
When I made up that story about those two guys, it was just to be
totally annoying, and he laughed, but it was obvious he wasn't quite
sure whether to believe me.  Me -- yeah, right.  I'd never do a thing
like that, I'm extremely loyal, and I don't sleep around.  I don't
know how someone could date me, know me that well, and then wonder
whether I was kidding about a thing like that.

I don't know you and I don't know whether you tend towards jealousy
and suspicion or not.  Is this normal with you?  Because even though
some things in there sound a little weird, you are also coming off
sounding paranoid to me.  (Or you may just be leaving enough details
out that I don't see what you're seeing.  I mean, what exactly are
"mysterious text messages" for instance.)  And when you're paranoid,
you already believe things before there's reason to believe it, and
then you start looking for confirmation, and lo and behold, you find
it whether it exists or not.  Just like this former boyfriend of mine.
He'd already  made up his mind about many things, and then no matter
what I did, he'd find an excuse to fit it into what he was already
thinking.

Don't do that.

Now.  Forget that for the moment... You have to decide whether this
"long-distance relationship" is worth it.  Has she said she loves you?
Do you think she does?  Do you think this is going to go anywhere?  If
not, it's probably either best forgotten now, or maybe you can be
friends.  (It can happen, you know.)  Maybe she's not ready for it to
mean anything more than that.  If you're not ready to forget it, I
think you need to talk to her, perhaps with an interpretor if
possible.  I also think you need to back off a bit and see what kind
of move she makes.

I'm not the kind of person to tell someone whether to stay in a
relationship or not.  You've got plenty to think about and you have to
go do that and make your own decision, because only you know what you
can or can't deal with.

>
>   I'm posting to this newsgroups because I've got nowhere else to go. I 
>wished I was posting about Ultima 7 or something but I'm not. My friends
>don't understand. My bandmates don't understand. You guys all sound like 
>you would help out a fellow Ultima fan. I'm old enough to know better 
>than to be a fool for her but I'm still young enough to be naive 
>sometimes--maybe she's been telling me the truth all this time and I've 
>just been too much of a self-absorbed, paranoid, green-eyed bastard to 
>realise how much she loves me.

Maybe.  But naive goes both directions.  And it's not always about
naive, but sometimes about emotions taking over our senses.  It
happens to all of us.

>
>   So, my options are:
>
>   1. Never ever call her again and forget it all. I've been through 
>this way with her a few times already. But I've always weakened and 
>called her back.
>
>   2. Thrash it out. Say everything that I've been holding back and 
>demand a full explaination for everything, consequences be damned.
>
>   3. Demand that she flys over to me to prove that she really does care 
>for me. It's petty and childish, I know.

Never calling again and forgetting it is an option.  But I always
think talking about something first is a nice idea, whether it be
because you don't want to dismiss something through assumptions when
you don't know the answers, and because if you really want to leave a
situation, it provides closure.

Big warning here:  never, ever, ever DEMAND anything.  It's a lot more
than just petty and childish.  (She's not under your command,
remember?)  Don't demand and don't make ultimatums.  You'll lose.
Unless of course, that's what you want.


--

Erimess Dragon  
 -==(UDIC)==-          

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!                   
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa2
--------
Do infants enjoy infancy as much as 
adults enjoy adultery?
--George Carlin Mumblings