Re: Got burned - Don't go to Lansing Jet Center.

"Captain Wubba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "MRQB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > Yes i have been burned by a flight school and insearch for another
flight
> > school i have found out that they like to take advantage of student
pilots
> > and private pilots for check outs of aircraft.
> >
> > 1, Flight school got rid of their plane 7/8ths the way through my
training
> > prior to getting new one but requires a check out of new plane at my
expense
> > witch is B.S. and i explained that to them.
>
> How is that BS? It is their plane. They have no obligation to you to
> ask you if it is OK with you if they sell their airplane. Did you have
> a contract with them that stipulatd that they would keep the same
> plane, or is this just an (unrealistic) expectation on your part?

I Paid block time on that aircraft!!!!

>
> > 2, will not check you out in an aircraft unless you have 5 to 7 hours of
> > instruction with their instructor
>
> For a student pilot? Dang straight. After you get your ticket this
> won't be the case with most garden-variety 172s, but try to rent a
> Cessna 206...or a 172 RG...or even a 182. Many places require a
> certain number of hours with their instructor.

I have no problem with extra instruction the more the better right.

>
> > 3, will not let you fly their plane with your instructor
>
> Again, why should they? If they are in business to 'sell' training to
> pilots, why should they furnish a competitor with the tools necessary
> to practice his trade?
>
> > 4,  And lots of other stuff i ran in to in my situation like instructors
not
> > wanting to sign you off  for check ride without 10 hours of your money
in
> > their pocket.
>
> No offense, but I have heard this complaint several times before. Once
> from a very good friend of mine, who was complaining that his CFII was
> 'milking' him for money instead of signing him of for his instrument
> checkride immediately. I then went up and shot approaches with him.
> There is no possible way he would have passed. None. He simply wasn't
> good enough, even though he definitely thought he was.

Was told by my CFI that he was going to make my check ride appointment and
that i was ready.
>
> This is probably your first checkride. This is probably your
> instuctors 150th signoff (also having taken at least 4 or 5 himself).
> Perhaps he knows a bit more about what level of skill is necessary to
> pass that checkride than you do?

Yes this will be my first check ride he said my skill were beyond PTS lots
of practice.
>
> >
> > I already spoke with an attorney and i have grounds to sue not only the
> > school but the owner of the plane and the flight instructor as well for
not
> > disclosing to me weeks in advance that they were getting rid of the
plane
> > they knew prior to my solo that they would only have the plane to a
cretin
> > date if they would have told me that prior i would not have paid them a
> > penny more and went some ware else and only been out a few hundred.
> >
> > And if they don't have the plane by Wednesday and give me the time to
get to
> > ware i was prior to them getting rid of the plane the suite is going
forth
> > with out discrimination on a contingency basis. Yes it may only be
$5,000 in
> > training spent but will cost me another $1k to $3k at another flight
school
> > and $0 for an attorney to handle this case as the school will be
responsible
> > for all attorney costs + damages.
> >
> > we will all see what happens this type of thing make flying no fun and i
> > enjoy flying and don't want to see anyone else get taken by this school
but
> > they say they will make it right lets see if they do Wednesday. No call
> > today from instructor with airplane update as promised
>
> Sigh. No wonder so many people don't want to be CFIs. You don't like
> what happens to you, so you sue. Good call. I certainly wouldn't want
> to be your CFI. Also, no offense, but I work at a bank...you have no
> idea how many times we hear "I talked to a lawyer yesterday, and he
> said that if you don't do XXX, he'll be happy to sue you. So what will
> it be?" Our answer is *always* give your lawyer a call...but these
> people never seem to follow through with it. Wonder why?

I like my cfi he is a exelent instructor.

>
> What makes flying no fun is often people with a sense of entitlement.
> They tend to make bad pilots. I'm not  a CFI yet (I am an AGI), but
> I'll be one within the month. And if a student displayed the kind of
> attitude problems I see in your post here, I'd be very reluctant to
> fly with you. Why?
>
> 1. Your belief that you know your flying skills at this point better
> than your CFI (as evidenced by your statement that your CFI is milking
> you). Very hard to instruct somebody who thinks you are trying to rip
> you off. Very hard to teach somebody who thinks they know 'enough' and
> don't need what I am teaching.

Not saying that my instructor is milking me the school is for airplane
rental. And no i dont belive my flying skills are any better than my cfi has
told me that they are. They are better than PST.
>
> 2. Your unrealistic expectations (like the plane you like will be
> available whenever you want it). This can ve a very dangerous flight
> attitude. Does this come through in your flying? Do you 'expect' to
> get cleared into Class B as soon as you call them up, and become upset
> when they tell you to stay clear of Class B for 5 minutes while they
> deal with other traffic?

I can be tollerant of a lot of things If it was a mechanical problem idd be
ok with that. but they made the choice to get rid of the plane prior to
taking delivery of their new one. I know in my business i dont get rid of a
tool unless i get my new one first. Also idd stay out of Class B if told to.

>
> 3. Your insistence that you will sue when you don't get your way. Why
> would I as an instuctor want to egt involved with somebody who says he
> will sue whoever pisses him off? Next time I piss you off, will you
> sue me? CFIs make $20 an hour (if they are lucky). They aren't geting
> rich off of you. Most FBOs and flight schools aren't raking in the
> dough either....they aren't retiring in Bermuda off of your $75 an
> hour rental of their 172. It simply wouldn't be worth the downside for
> me to fly with you.
>
> Now maybe this post really doesn't reflect how you are. But it really
> doesn't show you in a very positive light.

I am not sue happy at all!!!!!!! i just think that they should have
disclosed to me when they found out that the plane wouold not be avaiable to
me and the date it would be sold they know since 1st of october that it
would be going away mid november. and if i would have known that idd have
cut my losses early and went to another flight school. You Would Also....
Untill you are in my shoes dont judge me when and if you ever are ill know
how you feel. i know if at all i learned a lot from this call it a expencive
lesson.


>
> Cheers,
>
> Cap
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Travis Marlatte" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Really? I have never felt that someone was even thinking of taking
> >  advantage
> > > of me. Maybe I cast an air of confidence so they don't try it ... naw
that
> > > can't be. There certainly are airports and FBOs that are high priced
but
> > > It's not directed at inexperienced pilots. They're screwing
everybody!!
> > >
> > > I doubt that MRQB was the victim of line service soaking him
(literally
> >  and
> > > financially). It was either a lack of focus (same technique for big
jets
> >  or
> > > small planes) or training (Oh, is that what that garden sprayer is
there
> > > for?!). A little inquiry on his part before the deice probably would
have
> > > got the service he needed for a reasonable cost. In general, the
people at
> > > the Lansing airport, like most others, are fantastic. They do have to
make
> >  a
> > > living and, for the most part, charge appropriately.
> > >
> > > Travis
> > >
> > > "MRQB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > I noticed in aviation that you need to be very very careful who you
deal
> > > > with. There are a lot of scammers out there that like to take
advantage
> >  of
> > > > beginning or new pilots.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Lynne Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > When we de-ice the jet in Boston, it's about $500. That IS for a
> > > > > Gulfstream. As such, I would expect yours to be in the $100 to
$175
> > > > > range. The $12.50 per gallon is fair, though. A very good option
would
> > > > > be that the person who sprayed the aircraft did not know how to
spray
> > > > > correctly, and as such used WAY too much glycol. It's been done
> > > > > before...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon Kraus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >  news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > > > > I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to
visit
> > > > > > family in Lansing Michigan.  My trip up was a beautiful,
uneventful
> >  hour
> > > > > > and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning  and then
> >  return.
> > > > > > The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of
icing
> > > > > > issues.  No problem better safe than sorry right...  Saturday
dawned
> > > > > > much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating
of
> >  ice
> > > > > > that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for
> >  free.
> >  I
> > > > > > wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job
and
> > > > > > presented me with a $462.50 bill I about  lost it (shit my
pants).
> >  Hell
> > > > > > the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid
the
> >  bill
> > > > > > and vowed to not go there again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any one got any stories of being ripped off?  I feel the need to
> > > > > > commiserate...   ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jon Kraus
> > > > > > PP-ASEL
> > > > > > Student-IA
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >