Re: Got burned - Don't go to Lansing Jet Center.

"MRQB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Yes i have been burned by a flight school and insearch for another flight
> school i have found out that they like to take advantage of student pilots
> and private pilots for check outs of aircraft.
> 
> 1, Flight school got rid of their plane 7/8ths the way through my training
> prior to getting new one but requires a check out of new plane at my expense
> witch is B.S. and i explained that to them.

How is that BS? It is their plane. They have no obligation to you to
ask you if it is OK with you if they sell their airplane. Did you have
a contract with them that stipulatd that they would keep the same
plane, or is this just an (unrealistic) expectation on your part?

> 2, will not check you out in an aircraft unless you have 5 to 7 hours of
> instruction with their instructor

For a student pilot? Dang straight. After you get your ticket this
won't be the case with most garden-variety 172s, but try to rent a
Cessna 206...or a 172 RG...or even a 182. Many places require a
certain number of hours with their instructor.

> 3, will not let you fly their plane with your instructor

Again, why should they? If they are in business to 'sell' training to
pilots, why should they furnish a competitor with the tools necessary
to practice his trade?

> 4,  And lots of other stuff i ran in to in my situation like instructors not
> wanting to sign you off  for check ride without 10 hours of your money in
> their pocket.

No offense, but I have heard this complaint several times before. Once
from a very good friend of mine, who was complaining that his CFII was
'milking' him for money instead of signing him of for his instrument
checkride immediately. I then went up and shot approaches with him.
There is no possible way he would have passed. None. He simply wasn't
good enough, even though he definitely thought he was.

This is probably your first checkride. This is probably your
instuctors 150th signoff (also having taken at least 4 or 5 himself).
Perhaps he knows a bit more about what level of skill is necessary to
pass that checkride than you do?

> 
> I already spoke with an attorney and i have grounds to sue not only the
> school but the owner of the plane and the flight instructor as well for not
> disclosing to me weeks in advance that they were getting rid of the plane
> they knew prior to my solo that they would only have the plane to a cretin
> date if they would have told me that prior i would not have paid them a
> penny more and went some ware else and only been out a few hundred.
> 
> And if they don't have the plane by Wednesday and give me the time to get to
> ware i was prior to them getting rid of the plane the suite is going forth
> with out discrimination on a contingency basis. Yes it may only be $5,000 in
> training spent but will cost me another $1k to $3k at another flight school
> and $0 for an attorney to handle this case as the school will be responsible
> for all attorney costs + damages.
> 
> we will all see what happens this type of thing make flying no fun and i
> enjoy flying and don't want to see anyone else get taken by this school but
> they say they will make it right lets see if they do Wednesday. No call
> today from instructor with airplane update as promised

Sigh. No wonder so many people don't want to be CFIs. You don't like
what happens to you, so you sue. Good call. I certainly wouldn't want
to be your CFI. Also, no offense, but I work at a bank...you have no
idea how many times we hear "I talked to a lawyer yesterday, and he
said that if you don't do XXX, he'll be happy to sue you. So what will
it be?" Our answer is *always* give your lawyer a call...but these
people never seem to follow through with it. Wonder why?

What makes flying no fun is often people with a sense of entitlement.
They tend to make bad pilots. I'm not  a CFI yet (I am an AGI), but
I'll be one within the month. And if a student displayed the kind of
attitude problems I see in your post here, I'd be very reluctant to
fly with you. Why?

1. Your belief that you know your flying skills at this point better
than your CFI (as evidenced by your statement that your CFI is milking
you). Very hard to instruct somebody who thinks you are trying to rip
you off. Very hard to teach somebody who thinks they know 'enough' and
don't need what I am teaching.

2. Your unrealistic expectations (like the plane you like will be
available whenever you want it). This can ve a very dangerous flight
attitude. Does this come through in your flying? Do you 'expect' to
get cleared into Class B as soon as you call them up, and become upset
when they tell you to stay clear of Class B for 5 minutes while they
deal with other traffic?

3. Your insistence that you will sue when you don't get your way. Why
would I as an instuctor want to egt involved with somebody who says he
will sue whoever pisses him off? Next time I piss you off, will you
sue me? CFIs make $20 an hour (if they are lucky). They aren't geting
rich off of you. Most FBOs and flight schools aren't raking in the
dough either....they aren't retiring in Bermuda off of your $75 an
hour rental of their 172. It simply wouldn't be worth the downside for
me to fly with you.

Now maybe this post really doesn't reflect how you are. But it really
doesn't show you in a very positive light.

Cheers,

Cap





> "Travis Marlatte" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Really? I have never felt that someone was even thinking of taking
>  advantage
> > of me. Maybe I cast an air of confidence so they don't try it ... naw that
> > can't be. There certainly are airports and FBOs that are high priced but
> > It's not directed at inexperienced pilots. They're screwing everybody!!
> >
> > I doubt that MRQB was the victim of line service soaking him (literally
>  and
> > financially). It was either a lack of focus (same technique for big jets
>  or
> > small planes) or training (Oh, is that what that garden sprayer is there
> > for?!). A little inquiry on his part before the deice probably would have
> > got the service he needed for a reasonable cost. In general, the people at
> > the Lansing airport, like most others, are fantastic. They do have to make
>  a
> > living and, for the most part, charge appropriately.
> >
> > Travis
> >
> > "MRQB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > I noticed in aviation that you need to be very very careful who you deal
> > > with. There are a lot of scammers out there that like to take advantage
>  of
> > > beginning or new pilots.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Lynne Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > When we de-ice the jet in Boston, it's about $500. That IS for a
> > > > Gulfstream. As such, I would expect yours to be in the $100 to $175
> > > > range. The $12.50 per gallon is fair, though. A very good option would
> > > > be that the person who sprayed the aircraft did not know how to spray
> > > > correctly, and as such used WAY too much glycol. It's been done
> > > > before...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jon Kraus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>  news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > > > I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to visit
> > > > > family in Lansing Michigan.  My trip up was a beautiful, uneventful
>  hour
> > > > > and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning  and then
>  return.
> > > > > The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of icing
> > > > > issues.  No problem better safe than sorry right...  Saturday dawned
> > > > > much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating of
>  ice
> > > > > that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for
>  free.
>  I
> > > > > wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job and
> > > > > presented me with a $462.50 bill I about  lost it (shit my pants).
>  Hell
> > > > > the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid the
>  bill
> > > > > and vowed to not go there again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any one got any stories of being ripped off?  I feel the need to
> > > > > commiserate...   ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jon Kraus
> > > > > PP-ASEL
> > > > > Student-IA
> > >
> > >
> >
> >