Re: russia vs. japan in 1941 [WAS: Re: 50% of NAZI oil..]

"ZZBunker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Nicholas Smid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > "Stuart Wilkes' mom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > I always said Stuey would never amount to anything.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Drazen Kramaric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> >  message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > On 23 Oct 2003 03:20:56 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart Wilkes)
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >> What were the numbers of soldiers involved in the two campaigns
that
> > > > >> you are comparing. i.e:
> > > > >
> > > > >Suprisingly equal, Rostyk.  I'm suprised you didn't know that.
> > > >
> > > > Post the numbers, then.
> > > > >
> > Rawest numbers for jan 1939
> > Germany 1,500,000 troops
> > Holland          60,000
> > Belgium         80,000
> > France         700,000
> > Britain          154,000
> > total              994,000
> >
> > in divisions the Germans had 136 against 136
> > To keep some navy in this well the German navy at the time might be able
to
> > beat Hollands but it was totaly out classed by both major powers
> > In aircaft it was about 4500 against about 5900, though the Germans did
have
> > a lower proportion of obsaleat types.
>
>   The Germans didn't need much of a Navy in WWII,
>   since they were attacking North Africa, the
>   Middle East, France, and Russia, not the US.
>

Where is pathetic loser Stuart Wilkes when you need him?
So they weren't attacking the US? German submarines routinely sank US ships
in US coastal waters, especially early on. They also routinely sank US
merchant marine vessels in international waters. Doenitz pleaded with Hitler
for more ships and subs. If Germany didn't need a navy, why was Doenitz
asking for them?

>   And especially since they were fighting
>   with tanks, rockets, and missles,
>   and the rest of Europe was fighting with horses and cannons.
>

Wrong. Germany used horses throughout the war like all the other continental
European countries. The US used motorized vehicles almost exclusively. The
V-1 and V-2 had no strategic impact.

>   And since it was the invasions of
>   Sicily, Normany, and Norway that saved
>   Russia's ass from certain anniolation, you're
>   missing several other armies in
>   the analysis.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > > > >> Size of armies in the west and the casualties?
> > > > >
> > > > >Well, the French Army alone suffered 1.9 million KIA and prisoners
in
> > > > >the campaign in the West, while the combined
> > > > >Franco-Anglo-Belgian-Dutch armies inflicted ~27,000 KIA on the
> > > > >Germans.
> > > >
> > > > Your numbers are correct, but do not tell the whole story. France
> > > > surrendered because it had no more manpower nor space to continue
the
> > > > war so all their remaining soldiers went to POW camps. Had you
> > > > included only POWs captured prior to cease fire the numbers would be
> >
> > The Vichy government maintained a large army untill the end of 42, at
which
> > point alot of it went over to the allies. Also alot of units, especully
> > reserve units, disbanded themselves late in the campain and went home
where
> > they were left as civies.
> >
> > > > more correct, but would represent argument against your thesis, that
> > > > Red Army represented the most efficient enemy realistically
possible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >In this case, the Germans faced unprepared unalerted,
> >  peacetime-strength
> > > > >Rifle Divisions (~6000 men) far from their assigned battle
positions,
> >  which is one of the
> > > > >advantages you get when you do a sneak attack.
> > > >
> > Except the only person the attack was a surprise to was the boss, due to
> > willful self deseption and a willingness to shoot anyone who dared to
tell
> > him the truth, it dose speck volumes for the courage of many in the Red
army
> > that they went on trying however. The trouble was that a large chunk of
the
> > Red army was in its battle possitions, the possitions were just insainly
> > chosin. being in the middle of a major re equipment cycle and doctran
change
> > didn't help much ether.
> >
> > > > You are representing this as 3,000,000 German soldiers appeared out
of
> > > > nowehere next to the Soviet border. The primary person responsible
for
> > > > Red Army been caught napping is the man you feel was justified in
> > > > invading Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland under the
> > > > pretext of "security in case of German attack".
> > > >
> > > > Why don't you address that fact for a change?
> > > >
> > Moving the boarder west probably saved Russia in 41, if preperations had
> > been made with any degree of compatence they should have done far
better.
> > The failiers rest 110% with the guy at the top and his cronies, though
> > atleast he had the ability once the war started to learn from his errors
if
> > not as fast as might be desired. Atleast he was smart enough to
recognise
> > talent and from the middle of 42 mostly listen to people who knew what
they
> > were talking about.
> > > >
> > > > Drax
> > >
> > >