Re: Well, I've finally seen some non-Sci Fi MST3K!

"Dgates" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:08:23 GMT, "The Claw"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Jeffro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >> Okay, you guys are right. Dr. Forrester is more likeable than
> >> Pearl is...
> >> he doesn't try as hard as Pearl does to get the same results.
>
> >I don't think I agree anymore that Pearl was less "likeable" than Dr.
> >Forrester.
>
> Gotta stop you right here!
>
> Maybe if you were saying "I don't think that Mary Jo was less likeable
> than Trace Bealieu," I could keep my peace, but...
>
> First of all, I think Mary Jo (inadvertently) got a raw deal.  Here's
> this funny woman who wrote many of the series' funniest jokes.  I
> specifically remember showing an episode to a girl and one of the very
> first jokes she laughed at was "It's Audrey Hepburn's hat from
> Breakfast at Tiffany's!"

    Let me clarify:

    When the Pearl storyline began, with Pearl arriving in Deep 13 as Dr.
Forrester's mom, I didn't care for the effect that the Pearl character had
on the show; granted, the agony she put Forrester through was funny in a
very dark-comedy way, but it went on much too long, and upset the comic
balance between Forrester and TV's Frank.  A *great* idea for one show, or
even maybe a recurring gag, but a bad idea for a permanent fixture.  I found
the Pearl character to be unlikable at that point.

On later reflection, though, I've come to the conclusion that the Pearl
character could have been very funny and appealing...but only in a storyline
in which her character could fit.  The Deep 13 storyline did not really
allow this, because if you have "...a man trapped in space being subjected
to torturous experiments in which he is forced to watch bad movies and have
his thoughts monitored", you MUST have "A mad scientist creates an
experiment wherein he has..."  That *is* the hook on which all of the show's
comedy is hung; miss that hook and the comedy has no basis, no reason to be,
no internal logic.

There is no place for a non-scientist at the Deep 13-end of that equation;
thus, I keep suggesting that the Pearl character should have been created
*as* a scientist.

> But now, as the cast members start leaving, she gets dropped in to
> play this nightmarish role -- this overbearing, white trash mother who
> brings the spontaneous humor at Deep 13 to a grinding halt.  She's not
> interested in invention exchanges; she's interested in eye makeup and
> bingo and a possible date with a hunky guy.

    Her character has no place in the plotline, and the attempt to adapt her
(by making her a sadistic maniac in an inexplicably-space-travel-capable VW
bus) were unsuccessful.  (One sure way to spot a plotline that isn't
working: having to accept too many unexplained events.  Falling for this is
doubly shocking for MST3k, since they'd lampooned that very fault in so many
movies.  On the other hand, maybe now we can all see why some of those
movies turned out the way they did...i.e., not just because the people
responsible were incompetent/irresponsible/crazy.)

> >I think the main problem with the Pearl storyline was that it
> >ignored the show's premise; a man in space being experimented on by a mad
> >scientist.

    The question being: why did these very, very creative people make such a
bad creative choice?

(And the answer is, I'm sure, budget.  I'm guessing that they didn't have
the necessary resources (financial or personal) to completely re-invent the
show.  Pearl's character was created and launched, let's charitably assume,
with the hope that the plotline would mutate naturally into something in
which her character made the same contribution that Trace's character made
to the original plot.  The subsequent wild and divergent directions that
were taken would seem to support this idea.  The fact that it never really
came together sucessfully doesn't mean that it couldn't have, eventually, of
course.)

> >What makes it all the more maddening was that Mary Jo is such a
tremendously
> >talented writer and performer.
>
> I agree that she wrote some good ones.  Well, at least, I believe she
> did since they kept her on the writing staff year after year.  I'm not
> sure about her as a performer -- in part, because it's hard, when I
> know I'm watching a sketch/performance I don't like, to determine
> whether the flaw is in the writing, the performing or both.

    Well, I've heard her on NPR, and read everything she's made available
on-line.  Having more exposure to her now, I look at her performances on MST
with some new perspective.

> >If she'd
> >been playing a character with a function in the plotline - perhaps,
instead
> >of Forrester's mom, she could have been his boss, or a rival scientist,
and
> >maybe also his ex-wife(!), who was also a scientist...
>
> I'm thinking that she doesn't seem even in the slightest like a
> scientist of any sort, or a woman who especially wants to "rule the
> world."

    I agree; the "Clayton's Mom" character is nothing like the "Pearl" she
slowly changed into as the Pearl plotline advanced.  My idea is that she
should have been introduced as a rival scientist INSTEAD of as Clayton's
Mom.

> I always thought that most of the actors played characters that were
> basically like themselves.  Joel, Frank, Mike when he's not hamming it
> up, and even Dr. Forrester kind of.

    THAT explains why Trace asked me what size jumpsuit I wore...!  (Ha, I
wish...I've never been in the same time zone as Trace, I'm sure.)

> But to grab Mary Jo and try to drop her in as something that so didn't
> fit her seemed wrong.
>
> And, rather than backing her role way down, they went the opposite
> direction.  They took a throwaway line like "an evil gal that wants to
> rule the world," and tried to create entire storylines out of it!
> Rather than letting her hang out in the background as one of an
> ensemble, they put a bunch of ugly makeup on her and moved the camera
> close on her face for grotesque close-ups.

    Another holdover from the "mad scientist" bag of comedy tricks: tight
close-ups that make the subject look wacky.  Works pretty well on Trace and
Frank, but it denied Pearl's character of some of her essential dignity.

Note that Forrester and TV's Frank were played as buffoons; Pearl never was.
She should have been photographed accordingly.

> I think they should have given her something that reflected her real
> life character, and possibly how she fit in with the other
> scriptwriters.

    Well, this is only partly related to your comment, but I would love to
have seen all the other characters take part in the theatre on occasion
(other than the Star Trek "Mirror, Mirror" parody.)

> >- I think she could have
> >been a hell of a lot funnier - and hence more popular - than she was (at
> >least, from the feedback that I am aware of.)
>
> This is still about her playing some kind of scientist...
>
> To quote Woody Allen, "If it bends it's funny; if it breaks, it's
> not."
>
> To have given Mary Jo a chance, I say the show had to offer her a
> character that didn't completely break.
>
> Scientist? No.
> Put-upon Margarent Dumont type? Sure.
> Evil madperson: No.
> Helpful assistant who actually ends up saving Dr. F's ass from time to
> time (like an Ernie Hudson from Ghostbusters)? Sure.

    I would modify what you've written to say: I wish the show had given her
a plotline appropriate for her character, or vice-versa.

> >Regarding Bobo and Brain Guy: both characters were funny...
> >but we saw way too much of them.
>
> Hmm, I'm listening...
>
> >A better solution might have been to cast
> >Pearl as a scientist character with a larger laboratory staff...
>
> Again, I have to ask: Why does she have the staff?  Why isn't she also
> just part of the staff?

    Somebody has to be in charge of the experiment (although you could try
to have it be administered by a committee, I suppose.  Seems like a lot of
risk for, at best, the same return.)  And again, I repeat what you said:
"...the show's premise; a man in space being experimented on by a mad
scientist."

> >and have Bill and Kevin play several recurring roles...
> >and thus use Bobo and/or Brain Guy only when some
> >comedically-appropriate situation for them suggested itself.
>
> I don't know.  I felt much more at ease watching Bobo just hanging out
> doing things than I did watching Mary Jo.

    Bobo was funny, but he had two jokes:  He's really dumb, and he's really
gross.  Got it.  Let's save him for when there is a correspondingly
dumb/gross joke in the movie, and not try to shoehorn him into every single
episode.

Ditto Brain Guy: He's really smart, though easy to bamboozle because he's
also full of himself, and he has supernatural powers.  A more versatile
character than Bobo, but again, not versatile enough to warrent a spot in
every show...especially in a plotline which can and does go all over the
universe.  (Plus, it always bothered me that Brain Guy had *no reason* to
hang around and take abuse from Pearl.  At least Bobo thought she was the
Lawgiver (though how was it she wound up there?  That was never really
explained...and how did everybody eat and breathe??!  Maybe I should just
relax.)) ;-)

> I think the show should have considered whether it really needed a
> ground-based cast of regulars at all.  Especially ones that for some
> reason are deliberately keeping Mike Nelson in a satellite.
>
> No matter how I slice it, I know that I never enjoyed watching Mary Jo
> play Pearl Forrester.  I don't know what happened behind the scenes
> that she got such a huge role.
>
> To make the most positive case for her: Everyone on the team thought
> she would be hysterical doing those things and they kind of forced her
> into it.  She went along good naturedly.

    I have no specific inside knowledge, of course, but I would be willing
to bet that, when offered the role of lead villain in the show, her response
was more enthusiastic than "good naturedly".  I think that, at the beginning
of her first season in the role, it must have seemed like a wonderful idea
that had lots of potential, because it did.  It's just that it didn't fit
the fundamental nature of the show's structure, and never overcame that
disadvantage.  Had they gone ahead and revised the entire plotline, so that
Mike was in the theatre for some reason other than an "experiment", who
knows how well it might have worked?

> To make the least positive case for her: It was actually her big ego
> that pushed her out into the spotlight.  The show was hurting for
> on-screen talent and the force of her off-screen personality was so
> strong that somehow no one stood up and said "This isn't working.
> You're not right for the role and the character's not right for the
> show."

    From my impressions of her (taken from what I've read, of course), I
think this is entirely unlikely, and virtually impossible.  To begin with,
it's ludicrous to suggest that there could be a member of the team with an
ego bigger than Kevin's.  (Ha!  Kidding, of course.  I have nothing but
admiration and respect for Kevin, though of course, I've never met him.
Anybody that could sit through the Bobo makeup day in and day out, though,
must at least have the virtue of patience.)

> I choose to believe the "most positive" case since it spreads the
> blame around a bit.

    I would have to say that, while there were certainly creative decisions
made that, in hindsight, seem unfortunate, the only "blame" that can be
assigned for the decline and eventual demise of MST3k must go, in the end,
to the Big Guy who came up with the concept of "all things must pass".
(Although...I can't speak for anyone else, but when MST3k finally shows it's
last episode on TV and disappears forever from the airwaves, I'm sure I'm
going to think, "I hate Tom Servo's new voice.")

The best we can do, as admiring fans, is to enjoy the parts of the show that
work for us, and encourage the next guy who happens to find himself with two
hours a week to fill on some local TV station - and two hundred bucks to
spend filling it - to learn from the experiences of his vastly-gifted
predecessors.

-- 

The Claw
http://www.empire-of-the-claw.com