Re: "You must complete your training" / Hell

Muuurgh wrote:
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>> Muuurgh wrote:
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>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What if Luke listened.  What would have happened if he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stayed on Degobah?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Usually when a master/parental figure tells one to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, they have good reason, and usually it's the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wisest choice.  But oft times the student/teenage kid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will do his own thing.  Now if what the master/parental
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure is right, which is usually the case and in this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case lets assume he was; would Yoda's instruction led
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke on a straighter less dangerous path? Which leads to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the conclusion; Yoda was "afraid" that Luke would meet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his Father and be turned to the Dark Side -- "remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cave". So he wanted Luke to wait for the inevitable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to happen -- Han Solo's imprisonment -- then after Vader
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was long gone Luke could rescue his friends from Jabba.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All-in-all the story would have had the same out come,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Empire would have fallen to the Rebellion, only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vader would have passed into darkness.  Which leads to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my other question:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where do Sith go when they die?  Is there not an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afterlife "hell" for bad people in the galaxy a long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time ago and far far away? Han mentions one in ESB, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hell is eternal then it must have existed, so why are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these spiritual people not afraid of death? Their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion seems to revolve around it, there is a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slim chance that you will actually be powerful enough to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be the strongest, it's only a matter of time before you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are usurped and destroyed.  I'd think that the concept
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of "hell" would be taught to Jedi students.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would Obi-Wan become stronger?  Is Vader not aware of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this concept? Where would Vader have gone if not saved by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke? Does he become powerful as well?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stretching it:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is spiritual warfare, where the balance of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the force is played out among the dead Jedi and Sith.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both become powerful, both fight eternally with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consequences in the galaxy a long time ago and far far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away. Only the Jedi care to involve themselves with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people that are still "alive", Sith could care less so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they never show up and simply try and destroy the good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works of the force in their own power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The stories lead us to assume that Sith *blip* out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence, while the Jedi remain in one happy, slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transparent, slightly blue family.  Has anyone ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written a book on the religion of the force?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By gol, I'm going to write one : The Book of Muuurgh :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's got a nice ring to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would help if you actually knew the story better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin at the end of ROTJ are not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bunch of angels sitting in the afterlife.  Or standing as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the case may be.  From what Lucas has said, when someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dies they become part of the Force.  Yoda and Obi-Wan
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were using a Jedi skill that kept them from becoming part
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Force. They were more like ghosts than angels.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, there is no heaven or hell.  There is only the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Force, and when somebody dies in a GFFA they become part
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of that Force.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So where is Darth Maul?  Did he retain his identity or was
>>>>>>>>>>>> he diffused?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody retains their identity.  All are eventually diffused.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then what's the point in caring, if there is no afterlife?
>>>>>>>>>> Everyone just gets diffused anyway.  Descisions don't
>>>>>>>>>> matter, I could kill without consequence.  If that is the
>>>>>>>>>> case then Sith makes the most sense, because it seems that
>>>>>>>>>> to be selfish for your minor tenure in GFFA would be your
>>>>>>>>>> only reward.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's probably why a GFFA is so hedonistic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then Jedi are stupid.  Why waste your talents on helping
>>>>>>>> people?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even those that believe in God think we should do so selflessly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but those that believe in God beleive in afterlife.
>>>>>
>>>>> And?  Belief should still be pure and selfless, not based on any
>>>>> reward of an afterlife.
>>>>
>>>> Belief should be based on truth.  And afterlife just happens to be
>>>> a part of the truth.
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, and what about Luke "saving" Vader?
>>>
>>> "I wont leave you, I've got to save you, "---Luke
>>> "You already have,"---Vader
>>>
>>> From what?  Luke was talking about physical death, is Vader simply
>>> referring to the memory of himself?
>>> Does this signify that Vader will once again return to the spirit of
>>> the Force...the good side....in eternity?
>>
>> It would at least indicate there is a desire to go out good.
>
> What's the point in that?  I mean the inevitable is within seconds..
> Why not just yell "Piss off!"

That's just the way things are in a GFFA.
-- 
C'Pi
For every winner, there are dozens of losers.
Odds are you're one of them.