Re: "You must complete your training" / Hell

"C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Muuurgh wrote:
> > "Muuurgh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> Muuurgh wrote:
> >>>> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
> >>>>>> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>>>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
> >>>>>>>> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> "Muuurgh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> What if Luke listened.  What would have happened if he
> >>>>>>>>>>>> stayed on Degobah?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Usually when a master/parental figure tells one to do
> >>>>>>>>>>>> something, they have good reason, and usually it's the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wisest choice.  But oft times the student/teenage kid will
> >>>>>>>>>>>> do his own thing.  Now if what the master/parental figure
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is right, which is usually the case and in this case lets
> >>>>>>>>>>>> assume he was; would Yoda's instruction led Luke on a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> straighter less dangerous path? Which leads to the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> conclusion; Yoda was "afraid" that Luke would meet his
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Father and be turned to the Dark Side -- "remember the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> cave". So he wanted Luke to wait for the inevitable to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> happen -- Han Solo's imprisonment -- then after Vader was
> >>>>>>>>>>>> long gone Luke could rescue his friends from Jabba.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> All-in-all the story would have had the same out come, the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Empire would have fallen to the Rebellion, only Vader would
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have passed into darkness.  Which leads to my other
> >>>>>>>>>>>> question:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Where do Sith go when they die?  Is there not an afterlife
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "hell" for bad people in the galaxy a long time ago and far
> >>>>>>>>>>>> far away? Han mentions one in ESB, if hell is eternal then
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it must have existed, so why are these spiritual people not
> >>>>>>>>>>>> afraid of death? Their religion seems to revolve around it,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> there is a very slim chance that you will actually be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> powerful enough to be the strongest, it's only a matter of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> time before you are usurped and destroyed.  I'd think that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the concept of "hell" would be taught to Jedi students.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> In other words:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Why would Obi-Wan become stronger?  Is Vader not aware of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this concept? Where would Vader have gone if not saved by
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Luke? Does he become powerful as well?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Stretching it:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is spiritual warfare, where the balance of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the force is played out among the dead Jedi and Sith.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Both become powerful, both fight eternally with
> >>>>>>>>>>>> consequences in the galaxy a long time ago and far far
> >>>>>>>>>>>> away. Only the Jedi care to involve themselves with the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> people that are still "alive", Sith could care less so
> >>>>>>>>>>>> they never show up and simply try and destroy the good
> >>>>>>>>>>>> works of the force in their own power.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The stories lead us to assume that Sith *blip* out of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> existence, while the Jedi remain in one happy, slightly
> >>>>>>>>>>>> transparent, slightly blue family.  Has anyone ever
> >>>>>>>>>>>> written a book on the religion of the force?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> By gol, I'm going to write one : The Book of Muuurgh : It's
> >>>>>>>>>>>> got a nice ring to it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> It would help if you actually knew the story better.  Yoda,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Obi-Wan, and Anakin at the end of ROTJ are not a bunch of
> >>>>>>>>>>> angels sitting in the afterlife.  Or standing as the case
> >>>>>>>>>>> may be.  From what Lucas has said, when someone dies they
> >>>>>>>>>>> become part of the Force.  Yoda and Obi-Wan were using a
> >>>>>>>>>>> Jedi skill that kept them from becoming part of the Force.
> >>>>>>>>>>> They were more like ghosts than angels.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, there is no heaven or hell.  There is only the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Force, and when somebody dies in a GFFA they become part of
> >>>>>>>>>>> that Force.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So where is Darth Maul?  Did he retain his identity or was he
> >>>>>>>>>> diffused?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Nobody retains their identity.  All are eventually diffused.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Then what's the point in caring, if there is no afterlife?
> >>>>>>>> Everyone just gets diffused anyway.  Descisions don't matter, I
> >>>>>>>> could kill without consequence.  If that is the case then Sith
> >>>>>>>> makes the most sense, because it seems that to be selfish for
> >>>>>>>> your minor tenure in GFFA would be your only reward.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It's probably why a GFFA is so hedonistic.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Then Jedi are stupid.  Why waste your talents on helping people?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Even those that believe in God think we should do so selflessly.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, but those that believe in God beleive in afterlife.
> >>>
> >>> And?  Belief should still be pure and selfless, not based on any
> >>> reward of an afterlife.
> >>
> >> Belief should be based on truth.  And afterlife just happens to be a
> >> part of the truth.
> >
> > Oh yeah, and what about Luke "saving" Vader?
> >
> > "I wont leave you, I've got to save you, "---Luke
> > "You already have,"---Vader
> >
> > From what?  Luke was talking about physical death, is Vader simply
> > referring to the memory of himself?
> > Does this signify that Vader will once again return to the spirit of
> > the Force...the good side....in eternity?
>
> It would at least indicate there is a desire to go out good.

What's the point in that?  I mean the inevitable is within seconds.. Why not
just yell "Piss off!"

-Muuurgh

> -- 
> C'Pi
> For every winner, there are dozens of losers.
> Odds are you're one of them.
>
>