Re: "You must complete your training" / Hell

Muuurgh wrote:
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>>
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>>> Muuurgh wrote:
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>>>>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
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>>>>>>>>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> What if Luke listened.  What would have happened if he
>>>>>>>>>>>> stayed on Degobah?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Usually when a master/parental figure tells one to do
>>>>>>>>>>>> something, they have good reason, and usually it's the
>>>>>>>>>>>> wisest choice.  But oft times the student/teenage kid will
>>>>>>>>>>>> do his own thing.  Now if what the master/parental figure
>>>>>>>>>>>> is right, which is usually the case and in this case lets
>>>>>>>>>>>> assume he was; would Yoda's instruction led Luke on a
>>>>>>>>>>>> straighter less dangerous path? Which leads to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> conclusion; Yoda was "afraid" that Luke would meet his
>>>>>>>>>>>> Father and be turned to the Dark Side -- "remember the
>>>>>>>>>>>> cave". So he wanted Luke to wait for the inevitable to
>>>>>>>>>>>> happen -- Han Solo's imprisonment -- then after Vader was
>>>>>>>>>>>> long gone Luke could rescue his friends from Jabba.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All-in-all the story would have had the same out come, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Empire would have fallen to the Rebellion, only Vader would
>>>>>>>>>>>> have passed into darkness.  Which leads to my other
>>>>>>>>>>>> question:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Where do Sith go when they die?  Is there not an afterlife
>>>>>>>>>>>> "hell" for bad people in the galaxy a long time ago and far
>>>>>>>>>>>> far away? Han mentions one in ESB, if hell is eternal then
>>>>>>>>>>>> it must have existed, so why are these spiritual people not
>>>>>>>>>>>> afraid of death? Their religion seems to revolve around it,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a very slim chance that you will actually be
>>>>>>>>>>>> powerful enough to be the strongest, it's only a matter of
>>>>>>>>>>>> time before you are usurped and destroyed.  I'd think that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the concept of "hell" would be taught to Jedi students.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why would Obi-Wan become stronger?  Is Vader not aware of
>>>>>>>>>>>> this concept? Where would Vader have gone if not saved by
>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke? Does he become powerful as well?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stretching it:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is spiritual warfare, where the balance of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the force is played out among the dead Jedi and Sith.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Both become powerful, both fight eternally with
>>>>>>>>>>>> consequences in the galaxy a long time ago and far far
>>>>>>>>>>>> away. Only the Jedi care to involve themselves with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> people that are still "alive", Sith could care less so
>>>>>>>>>>>> they never show up and simply try and destroy the good
>>>>>>>>>>>> works of the force in their own power.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The stories lead us to assume that Sith *blip* out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> existence, while the Jedi remain in one happy, slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>> transparent, slightly blue family.  Has anyone ever
>>>>>>>>>>>> written a book on the religion of the force?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> By gol, I'm going to write one : The Book of Muuurgh : It's
>>>>>>>>>>>> got a nice ring to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It would help if you actually knew the story better.  Yoda,
>>>>>>>>>>> Obi-Wan, and Anakin at the end of ROTJ are not a bunch of
>>>>>>>>>>> angels sitting in the afterlife.  Or standing as the case
>>>>>>>>>>> may be.  From what Lucas has said, when someone dies they
>>>>>>>>>>> become part of the Force.  Yoda and Obi-Wan were using a
>>>>>>>>>>> Jedi skill that kept them from becoming part of the Force.
>>>>>>>>>>> They were more like ghosts than angels.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, there is no heaven or hell.  There is only the
>>>>>>>>>>> Force, and when somebody dies in a GFFA they become part of
>>>>>>>>>>> that Force.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So where is Darth Maul?  Did he retain his identity or was he
>>>>>>>>>> diffused?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nobody retains their identity.  All are eventually diffused.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then what's the point in caring, if there is no afterlife?
>>>>>>>> Everyone just gets diffused anyway.  Descisions don't matter, I
>>>>>>>> could kill without consequence.  If that is the case then Sith
>>>>>>>> makes the most sense, because it seems that to be selfish for
>>>>>>>> your minor tenure in GFFA would be your only reward.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's probably why a GFFA is so hedonistic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then Jedi are stupid.  Why waste your talents on helping people?
>>>>>
>>>>> Even those that believe in God think we should do so selflessly.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but those that believe in God beleive in afterlife.
>>>
>>> And?  Belief should still be pure and selfless, not based on any
>>> reward of an afterlife.
>>
>> Belief should be based on truth.  And afterlife just happens to be a
>> part of the truth.
>
> Oh yeah, and what about Luke "saving" Vader?
>
> "I wont leave you, I've got to save you, "---Luke
> "You already have,"---Vader
>
> From what?  Luke was talking about physical death, is Vader simply
> referring to the memory of himself?
> Does this signify that Vader will once again return to the spirit of
> the Force...the good side....in eternity?

It would at least indicate there is a desire to go out good.
-- 
C'Pi
For every winner, there are dozens of losers.
Odds are you're one of them.