Re: "You must complete your training" / Hell

Muuurgh wrote:
> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Muuurgh wrote:
>>> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
>>>>> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Muuurgh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "C'Pi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>> Muuurgh wrote:
>>>>>>>>> What if Luke listened.  What would have happened if he stayed
>>>>>>>>> on Degobah?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Usually when a master/parental figure tells one to do
>>>>>>>>> something, they have good reason, and usually it's the wisest
>>>>>>>>> choice.  But oft times the student/teenage kid will do his
>>>>>>>>> own thing.  Now if what the master/parental figure is right,
>>>>>>>>> which is usually the case and in this case lets assume he
>>>>>>>>> was; would Yoda's instruction led Luke on a straighter less
>>>>>>>>> dangerous path? Which leads to the conclusion; Yoda was
>>>>>>>>> "afraid" that Luke would meet his Father and be turned to the
>>>>>>>>> Dark Side -- "remember the cave". So he wanted Luke to wait
>>>>>>>>> for the inevitable to happen -- Han Solo's imprisonment --
>>>>>>>>> then after Vader was long gone Luke could rescue his friends
>>>>>>>>> from Jabba.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All-in-all the story would have had the same out come, the
>>>>>>>>> Empire would have fallen to the Rebellion, only Vader would
>>>>>>>>> have passed into darkness.  Which leads to my other question:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where do Sith go when they die?  Is there not an afterlife
>>>>>>>>> "hell" for bad people in the galaxy a long time ago and far
>>>>>>>>> far away? Han mentions one in ESB, if hell is eternal then it
>>>>>>>>> must have existed, so why are these spiritual people not
>>>>>>>>> afraid of death? Their religion seems to revolve around it,
>>>>>>>>> there is a very slim chance that you will actually be
>>>>>>>>> powerful enough to be the strongest, it's only a matter of
>>>>>>>>> time before you are usurped and destroyed.  I'd think that
>>>>>>>>> the concept of "hell" would be taught to Jedi students.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In other words:
>>>>>>>>> Why would Obi-Wan become stronger?  Is Vader not aware of this
>>>>>>>>> concept? Where would Vader have gone if not saved by Luke?
>>>>>>>>> Does he become powerful as well?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stretching it:
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is spiritual warfare, where the balance of the
>>>>>>>>> force is played out among the dead Jedi and Sith.  Both become
>>>>>>>>> powerful, both fight eternally with consequences in the
>>>>>>>>> galaxy a long time ago and far far away. Only the Jedi care
>>>>>>>>> to involve themselves with the people that are still "alive",
>>>>>>>>> Sith could care less so they never show up and simply try and
>>>>>>>>> destroy the good works of the force in their own power.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The stories lead us to assume that Sith *blip* out of
>>>>>>>>> existence, while the Jedi remain in one happy, slightly
>>>>>>>>> transparent, slightly blue family.  Has anyone ever written a
>>>>>>>>> book on the religion of the force?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By gol, I'm going to write one : The Book of Muuurgh : It's
>>>>>>>>> got a nice ring to it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would help if you actually knew the story better.  Yoda,
>>>>>>>> Obi-Wan, and Anakin at the end of ROTJ are not a bunch of
>>>>>>>> angels sitting in the afterlife.  Or standing as the case may
>>>>>>>> be.  From what Lucas has said, when someone dies they become
>>>>>>>> part of the Force.  Yoda and Obi-Wan were using a Jedi skill
>>>>>>>> that kept them from becoming part of the Force.  They were
>>>>>>>> more like ghosts than angels.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Therefore, there is no heaven or hell.  There is only the
>>>>>>>> Force, and when somebody dies in a GFFA they become part of
>>>>>>>> that Force.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So where is Darth Maul?  Did he retain his identity or was he
>>>>>>> diffused?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobody retains their identity.  All are eventually diffused.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then what's the point in caring, if there is no afterlife?
>>>>> Everyone just gets diffused anyway.  Descisions don't matter, I
>>>>> could kill without consequence.  If that is the case then Sith
>>>>> makes the most sense, because it seems that to be selfish for
>>>>> your minor tenure in GFFA would be your only reward.
>>>>
>>>> It's probably why a GFFA is so hedonistic.
>>>
>>> Then Jedi are stupid.  Why waste your talents on helping people?
>>
>> Even those that believe in God think we should do so selflessly.
>
> Yes, but those that believe in God beleive in afterlife.

And?  Belief should still be pure and selfless, not based on any reward of
an afterlife.

>>> Maybe thats why han Solo is my hero.  He got it right.
>>
>> It's probably why you're complete bastard.
>
> I prefer scoundrel, but alas, I realize that standard is too high for
> even me.

Dare to dream.
-- 
C'Pi
For every winner, there are dozens of losers.
Odds are you're one of them.