Re: More tech than sci Q -- best size for community

On 1 Dec 2003 06:43:25 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Alan Kerr)
wrote:

>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Wildepad  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On 29 Nov 2003 11:00:22 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jaak Suurpere) wrote:
>
>Ok.  The one thing that no one has mentioned so far is "what happens
>when the problem is with the RTS?".  This would include:
>
>1) failure of the system itself (things break).
>
>Scheduling:  how do you update or upgrade the scheduling of this
>system? 

No need for scheduling changes. It starts at the optimum from a user
standpoint and stays there. Although it is incredibly inefficient from
an operational standpoint (starting out, the cars will be running
empty 90-95% of the time -- even the fully mature city will be running
empty cars 70-80% of the time), it eliminates the need to tinker with
the system later on.

> ...or *test* the upgrade?  with 12 lines running everywhere,
>it seems that there would be occasionally collisions and near misses.

The beauty of 12 lines is that collisions are easy to avoid -- all you
need is a system to prevent one car from rear-ending another. 

You just add a positive power cutoff to a standard railroad block
system and even rear-endings can only happen under the rarest of
multiple mechanical failure/human error situations. It can happen only
because nothing is perfect.

>Maintainance: I assume that "routine maintainance" is done
>continuously but what about "major renovations"?  Anyone who's gone
>through a major airport that is undergoing a major renovation or
>expansion knows that "nothing runs right".

Replacement of the track can be done one at a time without the users
even knowing it -- line 3 is reserved for times when another track is
unusable.

Station rennovations would consist of remodeling, not a major problem.

The concept has this advantage: the system never needs to be upgraded
to accomodate higher capacities per unit volume. Since each townlet
has a relatively fixed population, the stations never need more elbow
room or faster passenger processing, and the number of passengers
using the system in any given area will remain fairly constant.

Since population growth is accomodated by the addition of townlets,
it's just like adding dominoes to the end of a string, not affecting
what is already in place.

>Repair: (reasons for this are in part 2)  If something is broken, how
>does the RTS deal with the loss until repaired?

If a section of track is temporarily unusable, its traffic is switched
to line 3 (or 10, depending on the direction).

Damaged or disabled cars are taken to a repair/replacement center by
being towed on line 3.

>"Grounding" of trains: if you are having *continuous* problems with
>the trains and don't know why, you might have to "ground" some of them
>(or certain types).  How does the system deal with the train shortage?

Not a problem. When a new type of car is prototyped, it is thoroughly
tested before being duplicated for use. If it develops problems after
introduction, the old type of cars are used until the defect can be
isolated, identified, and corrected in a new prototype. (See paragraph
at end of post.)

>2) interference with the normal functioning of the system where all 12
>lines are affected by "something".  This can be even worse if the
>"something" affects a station (can't go around the long way).
>
>Weather disaster: flood, tornado, mudslide, earthquake, etc.  Some
>sort of weather disaster takes out all 12 lines in certain locations.
>How do you move emergency services (or anything else) in or out of a
>"cut off" region?

Two possibilities: 

1) you close in on it from all sides and start reparing/rebuilding.
Food and sundries are brought in by helicopter to those stranded
within the affected area, if any.

2) (less desirable) evacuate everyone within the affected area, by
helicopter if no other way, isolate the area in a bird's-eye, and
immediately replace all stretches of track. Connecting the stretches
will have to be done by hand labor, which can take time, but should
not take more than a week. 

>Accidents: derailment of a train.  The cars are scattered across most
>or all of the tracks.  A fire or chemical spill (chlorine gas, etc)
>forces all of the tracks at that location to be impassable

Because each set of tracks is dedicated to a particular purpose, their
placement, even in the stations, is widely separated. If something can
affect all the lines, it probably means that the entire community
center collapsed on top of it.

>Human Blockage: What if a mob of people decided to block all the
>tracks (at some location) as a protest?  

Fine. You simply block off that pod's access to the lines running to
other pods and stop all traffic within that pod.

>What if due to a weather
>disaster or accident, a lot of "dazed, confused, and injured" people
>who have been cut-off just start walking (or running) down the tracks
>toward the next station (or simply away from the disaster)?  They
>could hinder the rescue and repair efforts.

Some of the lines are fairly invisible to the common folk and will
need minimal attention. For example, the bulk delivery line would be
known about by everyone, but only those who actually load and unload
the cars know which keys are needed for which doors to get to the
handling platforms. This limits the number of people who could even
get to most of the lines. The same with the emergency lines and
reserve lines.

Clearing the lines of stray people would slow rescue efforts, but
since the only access to any of the system is at the stations, once
cleared they could be kept clear.

>3) purposely making the *entire* RTS "shutdown".
>
>Epidemic:  a SARS-like virus is found and the Powers That Be want to
>stop *everyone* from traveling.
>
>9/11 shutdown: a "man-made event" causes the RTS to be shutdown.
>Either by the Powers That Be or by the "event" itself.

Okay, the system needs a master switch. :)

This is exactly the type of thing that I needed to know and why I
asked the original question -- I now see the need for the distribution
centers to have a supply of batteries so that they can operate their
cars on the bulk delivery line even if the rest of the system is shut
down. The same with emergency vehicles.

Thanks. (I don't know if this will appear in the story, but it's the
kind of thing I need to know.)

>4) away from the RTS.
>
>If there is *NO* other transportation, what happens when you are away
>from the RTS?  How far can you walk away?  Could someone go on a hike
>10 miles away from the RTS?  If they got injured, how would they get
>back to the RTS (and then to the hospital)?

10 miles away from the rts would mean leaving the city.

Legitimate hikers can register at the local police station before
heading out, post a bond in case they need rescue, and carry some sort
of handy-talkie so that they can call for help. The city's rescue team
would transport their one and only :) ATV (probably on the bulk
carrier line) to the nearest station and then go overland.

>>>As stated, the inhabitants are encouraged to use the rapid traffic by
>>>subsidies.
>>
>>Um, no. The 'encouragement' is that there is simply nothing else
>>available. 
>
>nothing?  not even a bicycle or a skateboard?  Nothing like a
>"delivery truck"?  How do you move things *within* a Townlet?

There is no other surface transportation between townlets. Within the
townlet, everything is within walking distance.

Since the only shops are located in the community center, right above
the bulk carrier line, material handling is minimal and can be
accomplished by pallet jacks and a Cushman or two.

The townlet's garbage truck is basically a small electric pick-up with
compactor hydraulics and a flatbed for the container which it packs
the trash into. It can be pressed into service for the ocassional
delivery of a sofa or piano.

>>Worst case scenario: you're living on the innermost ring and must
>>reach a destination on the outermost ring that is 147 degrees away.
>>You express to your hospital townlet, switch to a high-speed which
>>rings you to the 135 degree spoke, switch to a high-speed which takes
>>you to the outer ring, and grab an express to the pod that you want.
>
>Ok, so that's the Worst Case...  would you give us a few examples of
>the Best Case?

You're a writer and your laptop sits on your bedside table.

>How far to the nearest convienience store?

300 feet. More or less. That's the longest distance from any front
door to the community center. Of course, the cc is fairly large -- 240
feet by 320 and three stories tall (above ground) -- so the distance
from the door to the shop you want may be somewhat more. Say, two
blocks, tops, at least half of it within a building.

>How far to the nearest hardware store?

Same.

>How far to the nearest place that would sell a "washer and dryer"?
>How would someone get the washer and dryer home?  ...carry it to the
>train... carry it to the connecting train...  carry it home?!?!?!
>You did say that there were *no* other vehicles.

No other vehicles for personal use. 

The nearest appliance store would probably be in your pod's
hospital/large-store townlet. You rts there, pick out what you want,
and arrange delivery. 

It looks like that garbage truck is going to need to be tweaked a bit
so that it look nice.      
 :) Thanks!

>How did the construction material for the homes get "on site"?

It didn't have to. (see below)

>>>with salient points that a) there is
>>>little agriculture - unbuilt land is wildreness and food is imported
>>>by freight trains
>>
>>Um, no. The food originates at switching yards within the city.
>>(That's complicated, but the reason for the story.)
>
>ummm.... nothing "originates" at a switching yard.  It's a "holding
>space" for train cars.  That would be like saying "my food originates
>in my refrigerator"...  but a refrigerator is another kind of "holding
>space".  It doesn't *originate* there.

In this case, everything does originate in the switchyards. 
Reread: >>(That's complicated, but the reason for the story.)
 :)

The only way that any of this makes sense is with a bit of technology
which is the basis of the story. Building 15,000 identical townlets,
putting down over a million miles of track, and supplying a city so
cheaply that it need produce nothing to survive -- that all relies on
the ability of the 'state' (actually six guys who stumbled onto a good
thing) to effectively use a replicator. The fact that there is only
one such device (a constraint of the story) means that the best way to
supply an entire city with food and merchandise is to duplicate
switchyards full of goods containerized for distribution.