Re: LOTR and 20th Century Western European Prejudices

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:35:08 -0500, Jim Cambias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:46:20 -0700, Brandon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> From European point of view, it was Europeans who
>> >> fought to keep US nuts from getting into the fire at all.
>> >> Two sides to every story.
>> >
>> >You have completely lost me.  Absent U.S. involvement in
>> >European politics and warfare in the 20th Century, Europe
>> >would now be languishing under either fascist tyranny or
>> >communist tyranny. 
>> 
>> This is unlikely. The Entente powers would have almost certainly won 
>> WW1 without American involvement. The Nazis would proably never have 
>> existed. Our WW2 wouldn't have happened; though it's possible that 
>> some analog might have.
>
>These are really weird statements.  The Entente powers who were on the
>verge of collapse in 1918

No they weren't, that was the other side.

In 1918, Germany made a lst big offensive, throwing everything into 
the battle. They failed to break through. The number of American 
troops that had actually arrived at that time was small, so it's 
very likely that the Germans' best shot would have failed withouty 
US involvement.

Of course, it wouldn't have happened that way, because the 
_Kaiserschlacht_ only happened because Germany thought they had a 
last chance to win the war before American forces in number 
arrived.

What would probably have happened is Germany on the defensivre, 
hoping to wear the British and French down.

Nevertheless, the Entente would invent Blitzkrieg tactics ("Plan 
1919") as they did in OTL. They would also ramp up tank production, 
as they planned to in OTL, and it's likely the war would end some 
time in 1919.

> would have suddenly won despite the loss of
>Russia?  Unlikely, to put it mildly.
>
>The second is even weirder:  if the US hadn't gotten involved in World War
>II the Nazis would have retroactively ceased to exist?

No, WW1, silly.

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