Re: Who were the Aryans?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Honest Aryan) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jordan179) wrote:
> 
> > The Celts were a branch of the Western Indo-Europeans. HA's point is a
> > bit more valid than he may realize, because one name that one group of
> > Celts have for their land is "Eire" -- which may be a direct
> > descendant of the same PIE (Proto Indo-European) word whose Eastern
> > Indo European manifestation was "Aryan" and is today "Iran."
> 
>    This was indeed what I had in mind
> (as opposed to PCizations such as the
> description of Tocharians as 'a typically
> Celtic people', which I 've seen several
> times recently).

I'm not sure it's a "PCization" -- from what I remember the Tocharian
mummies had classically Celtic hair colorations and features and a lot
of the design of the grave goods looked like early Celtic ("Battle Axe
people") workmanship. One possibility is that (even though the Celts
are the westernmost and the Tocharians are the easternmost known
Indo-European people) the Celts and Tocharians shared a common
cultural ancestry more recent than the first fissioning of the
Proto-Indo-Europeans. The geometric designs that we think of as
classically Celtic might have derived from the emblems of a tribe
within the Proto-Indo-European nation.

>    A post I copied down a while back had
> this to say:
>
> > PIE root: *ARIO (according to Pokorny)
> > Irish Aire, Airech "noble/lord" related to Gaulish Ario, Arico"lord/noble,"
> > both are equivalent of Vedic Arya, aryaka, Avestan Airyo. 
> > Also cognate is Old Norse Arjoster
> > Irish mythic king Eremon related to Gaulish Ariomanus - equivalent of Vedic
> > god Aryaman, Avestan Airyaman  : literally "noblility" from PIE *ARIO-MEN-OS
> > Germanic Erminones "noble people" also Wotan/Odinn's allonym, Irmin -
> > another name related to Vedic Aryaman.

Possibly also where "Aesir" (the "race" in which the Norse gods
claimed membership) comes from? It seems to be a common trait amongst
Indo-European peoples to name _themselves_ "noble" or "lordly," which
might in turn derive from the fact that the Indo-European expansion
was made possible by a _military_ innovation (chariotry / cavalry)
which in turn made it likely that an Indo-European people would become
the aristocracy of another people, by conquest. Aside from the Aryan
conquest of India, you also see this sort of thing in the IE conquest
of Hattusas (whereupon the IE-speakers become the aristocracy and
found the "Hittite" kingdom, worshipping a mixture of Mesopotamian and
Western Indo-European gods, such as Anu and Kronos/Kummarbi) and of
the Mitanni (who worship _Eastern_ Indo-European named gods, such as
Mitra).

> > Puhvel has seen the Italian mythic founder Romulus as being a modification
> > of *Ario-men-os, with his brother Remus being a modified form of *IEM-OS
> > "twin."

That's an interesting though, and it would certainly make sense in
terms of the Roman self-image. Of possible relevance here is an Asian
influence through the Etruscans, and the Roman legend of descent from
the Trojans.

I am naturally inclined to pay attention to legends when and where
they don't conflict with known history. While the _precise_ sequence
of events of the _Aenead_ are impossible (for one thing, Carthage
didn't exist in the 12th century BCE) it is certainly possible that
refugees from formerly Hittite-allied Asian lands came to Italy and
carved out colonies from the Neolithic territories there, just as the
Phoenecians were to later do at Carthage and the Greeks at Neapolis,
Massila, and Tarentum. Why not?

Sincerely Yours,
Jordan