Re: [News] Japan's New Export

Damien Roc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> Peter Van Huffel wrote:
>> You obviously have a twisted logic, because you're reading things that 
have 
>> not even been said. Noone said something about "superior", the statement 
was 
>> about being "different"!
>> In the universe of SEQUENTIAL ART, there are many different genres. 
Calling 
>> french "bandes dessinées", "french comics" *is* degrading. Calling "manga" 
a 
>> sort of "Japanese comics" is also degrading. The reason why? Not because 
>> "comics" are inferior (which is what you seem to think what was meant by 
it), 
>> no, because "manga" *are different* from "comics".
>> In your logic, you wouldn't mind me calling an x-men-comic an "American 
>> manga", I hope?
> 
> Well... The Japanese would. Actually, they might. They also tend to use 
> "komikkusu" as well as "manga" and I'm not sure they make any difference 
> of consideration.

I know that, as I've said many times myself in the past ten years. But I 
really dislike the Japanese habit of importing and mutilating words even when 
they have a perfect alternative, just because it sounds exotic. Nothing 
different from people putting a kanji tattoo on their skin.

> Ultimately, you're wrong. Manga are comics. Comics are manga. We use 
> different words just to make communication easier. We say "comics" 

Yeah, and wine is beer and beer is wine.


> instead of "sequential art" because it's, as Morgana said, more terse. 
> Same with "manga" and "Japanese comics" (or, god forbid, "Japanese 
> sequential art.")
> 
>> No sir, it can only be out of arrogance that you think that everything 
abroad 
>> is a derivative of what you have at home.
> 
> Except she wasn't.
> 
>> Yes, let's continue in the same vein and make some other derivatives, most 
of 
>> them I've already seen in the past and they make me cringe (trying not to 
>> shock people here, but it's to make my point clear):
>> 
>> mosque = Arabic church
>> cosmonaut = Russian astronaut
>> ramen = Japanese noodles
>> 
>> Such descriptions are generally used to give children a point of 
reference, 
>> but once you grow up, you should outgrow this and start using the correct 
>> word for things you describe, because the correct term will be infinitely 
>> more accurate. It's also simply a matter of respect towards another 
culture 
>> to use the original word.
> 
> Except the Japanese don't always, either. Hell, they don't even use 
> "anime" all the time, sometimes using "animeeshion." (My romanization 
> may be a bit off.)

>>>insufficient about the word "comic."  To demand that we don't call them
>> 
>> 
>> And you are really stubborn, because I repeat for the nth time that I nor 
the 
>> original article said that comics are inferior. It's the combination of 
the 
>> two "JAPANESECOMIC" (I'll write them as one word, maybe you'll finally see 
>> it) that's completely insufficient. Maybe you don't realize it, but to 
most 
>> people I know (ie non-americans) the word "comic" is very closely 
associated 
>> to sequential art produced in America. As such: the Japanese do not 
produce 
>> "comics" to me.
> 
> Well, it's probably not an entirely salient point, but in the six years 
> I lived in England, they used the word "comics" to describe all their 
> own, non-American, um... comics.

I wouldn't use the UK as an example for whatever form of sequential art. I do 
not live in the UK (50km from its border) and do not pretend to be an expert 
on the comic/manga scene over there, but unless I'm very mistaken, the UK is 
pretty much a wasteland on that area. Compare the original production on the 
european continent, in Japan, in the US to the UK and you'll understand what 
I mean. I know *many* more artists from the rest of the world than I know 
artists from the UK.


> Actually, there's a thought. if "Japanese comics" is degrading, is 
> calling them "manga artists" likewise degrading? Should we insist upon 

No. But calling them "comic artists" would be.

> saying "mangaka?" And keep applying this slippery slope until we all get 
> to the point of just speaking Japanese?

There is no slippery slope. It's actually quite simple, as I have developed a 
logical rule for it. I do not say that it's canon, but think about what I'll 
explain below:

1) If there's a perfect equivalent of a word in your own language, you use 
the word in your own language.
2) If you have to put an adjective or other kind of descriptor before the 
"equivalent", you have an indication that there isn't a perfect equivalent 
and thus using the foreign word makes sense.

A "mangaka" is a "manga artist", no less no more, so no problem there. Use 
manga artist instead of mangaka.

Other example: you could call a "futon" a "Japanese mattress", but I hope 
you'll agree that futon more exactly describes the thing in question. So 
here, it's right to use the foreign word. We use futon. I feel the same 
applies to "manga".

> I'd honestly -like- to, but it's not exactly an easy language to learn. 
> (Not for lack of trying, either.)

Finding formal education is the most important thing IMO. I did and am happy 
to have done so, because I probably wouldn't have been able to do it by 
myself.

-- 
Peter
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