Re: Dennis Brain's horn [was: Period vs Modern instruments?]

Peter T. Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Michael Haslam wrote:
> > 
> > Peter T. Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Ken Moore wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peter T. Daniels
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> > > > >How could you possibly know what he "intended," especially since he
> > > > >was working intensively on the work with no less than Dennis (note
> > > > >spelling) Brain himself? (Unfortunately the only picture of him in
> > > > >Mitchell's *Pictures from a Life* is a studio portrait, with valve
> > > > >horn.) If he "forces" the player to use a different instrument for
> > > > >the bookends, is it mere coincidence that only the notes playable
> > > > >on a natural instrument are used in the passages?
> > > >
> > > > No, but not because the notes are playable only on an instrument
> > > > without valves.
> > >
> > > No, because the notes are playable _better_ on a natural horn.
> > > (Obviously, not "only.")
> > 
> > Says who? As you have been told Brain's Raoux was a natural F horn
> > retro-fitted with valves.
> 
> As _you_ have been told, "retro-fitting" a horn with valves changes
> fundamental properties of it.

I missed that. Can you repost for me.
> 
> > > > What he wanted was the natural tuning, especially of the 7th, 11th
> > > > and (probably) 13th* "harmonics".  These notes are there on every
> > > > horn, and at the tuning he wanted if you can make it the length of a
> > > > horn in F (see an earlier post).
> > > >
> > > > *  What he actually got was the 14th, because that's what Brain
> > > > played for the notated A, and what all players in the British
> > > > tradition have played since.  Britten was there, knew the
> > > > difference, and didn't mind, according to Pears.  You can hear the
> > > > 13th on a fairly recent recording by a Czech player.
> > >
> > > Where does Pears say this?
> > 
> > Not relevant if you listen to Brain's recording and follow the score
> > with an understanding of the harmonic series.
> 
> Then why did he say "according to Pears"?

Ask him.
> 
> > > > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peter T. Daniels
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> > > > > >> The BBC library have a recording of Mr Brain playing the
> > > > > >> Britten prologue (conducted by forgotten Harry Newstone) on his
> > > > > >> 1818 Raoux and broadcast I think in 1954 or 1955.
> > >
> > > BTW, why would one need a conductor to play a solo line?
> > 
> > If you'd bothered to follow the link to the transcript of the programme,
> > all would be clear to even someone as dimwitted as you, Peter. The
> > programme was a documentary about the development of the early horn and
> > included extracts with orchestra; these were, of course, conducted. The
> > items for horn alone and the small ensemble pieces were, I would
> > imagine, <sigh> not conducted.
> 
> An audio file, that?

No, you twat. It's a transcript. Like a script..

> What size? What sort of connection is needed to
> hear it? What sort of plug-in?

None required for regular html.
> 
> Do you not see that he wrote "the Britten prologue (conducted by
> forgotten Harry Newstone)"?

The Britten Prologue has never needed a conductor. He meant the
conductor for the programme.
> 
> > > > > >That would pretty much prove that the prologue (repeated at the
> > > > > >end) was composed for the natural horn, and the wise horner won't
> > > > > >use a valve horn for it.
> > > > KCM:
> > > > > It proves nothing of the sort.  The Serenade was composed in 1943
> > > > > and, IIRC, first performed in England.  The most usual design of
> > > > > horn in the UK at that time was an instrument in the French style,
> > > > > with fairly narrow bore and three piston valves*, most often, but
> > > > > not invariably, used with an F crook.  Brain's Raoux (which he
> > > > > used for all the movements of the Serenade)
> > > >
> > > > > How do you know that? Michael just told us that he was "forced" to
> > > > > use a different instrument for the prologue and epilogue.
> > > >
> > > > If he wrote that (which I don't recall) he was wrong.  The Raoux had
> > > > the required notes.
> > > >
> > > > If Brain had used a hand horn I am confident that that would have
> > > > been recorded at the time, because it would have been so unusual.
> > >
> > > Maybe Clevinger was a more advanced horn player, 50 years on.
> > 
> > It is generally accepted that Brain has been succeeded by greater
> > exponents of the horn. That in no way diminishes his legacy.
> 
> But it suggests that Clevinger may have played the work differently from
> Brain -- using two instruments, for instance. One with valves, and one
> without.

For reasons that we can guess at but only he can divulge. And certainly
Britten would have been surprised.

MJHaslam