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SOC.CULTURE.NORDIC - AN INTRODUCTION
Welcome to the soc.culture.nordic newsgroup!
Soc.culture.nordic is a newsgroup for people interested in Scandinavia
(or rather: the "Nordic countries" - but more about that below).
The following questions and answers are intended to help you to get
the most out of the newsgroup.
1. "Which are the topics of soc.culture.nordic?"
That depends...
...for instance on who is taking part in the discussions this
week.
When having nothing more important to discuss, longterm
participants often indulge in leisurly exchanges with their
s.c.nordic mates. If you raise a somewhat serious question related
to the Nordic countries, the odds are that the s.c.nordic crowd
will scratch their heads and then make a decent try to answer your
question, then comment the answers, then comment the comments,
then comment the comments of the comments...
:-)
This is an unmoderated newsgroup. That's both good and bad.
+ It's good since it gives you, and everybody else, an absolute
right to express your opinions without being censored.
+ It's bad since the effect is that you as a reader has to do
all the work with finding out which contributors you like to
read, and whom you distrust.
+ It's good since that makes the newsgroup viable also in case
the group's regular contributors get other priorities in life
- and it makes the newsgroup less sensitive to technical
disturbances on local nets and computers.
+ It's bad since the first impression someone gets when
examining the newsgroup will be colored by all trash which
experienced readers of the group have learned to ignore
totally.
(Actually, this ability to ignore off-topic posts, and people
whose Internet-persona you dislike, is the first and most
important step, in learning to get on well with the newsgroup.)
Read more about which questions are suitable to raise (and which
aren't) below and at
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq13.html#1.3.4.
2. "What is a FAQ?"
FAQ stands for Frequently Asked Questions. FAQs attempt to
introduce a new reader to a newsgroup and provide answers to such
questions as are very often discussed so that people can move on
to new, fresh topics. Most major Usenet newsgroups have one FAQ or
several. About FAQs, see http://www.faqs.org/.
3. "Is there a FAQ for s.c.nordic?"
Yes. In addition to this small, introductory one, the main FAQ (a
whole library in fact) is stored at:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/
The purpose of this file is to provide a short introduction to the
newsgroup, with pointers to the main FAQ, which has become
uncomfortably large for quick reference.
One article from the main FAQ is intended to be posted to
s.c.nordic every day (when the computers are working), in order to
maintain some dialogue between the newsgroup and its FAQ. Those
regular readers who find this a disturbance can avoid seeing the
postings simply by kill-filing the poster "SCN FAQ-robot".
4. "Which subjects does the main s.c.nordic FAQ cover?"
Quite a few.
+ There's a general introduction to the newsgroup:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq13.html
+ One whole part designated to the culture, history, tourist
attractions, etc. of each Nordic country:
o Denmark: http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq31.html
o Finland: http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq41.html
o Iceland: http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq51.html
o Norway: http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq61.html
o Sweden: http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq71.html
+ Things that unite the Nordic countries and make them a whole:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq21.html#2.2
+ Information about the Saami, an indigenous people of Lapland:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq23.html
+ Nordic mythology:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq24.html
+ Nordic sexual stereotypes, censorship, attitudes to drugs,
etc.
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq27.html
+ Nordic character and "Jante Law":
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq26.html
+ Nordic traditions of "Social Democracy" and "welfare state":
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq28.html
+ The Nordic "Everyman's right" (to a limited use of all land):
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/allemans.html
As well as numerous articles on such topics as Nordic history,
languages and minority issues: do check the FAQ before you post a
question (it may already have been answered there). See the main
index: http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq0.html
5. "Which are the 'Nordic' countries?"
Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden - a group of
countries sometimes called "Norden". "Norden" also includes the
autonomous areas of Greenland, Faroe Islands and Åland islands. It
does not include such northern countries as Canada, Germany,
Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Mongolia or Scotland, or indeed
any other countries whether northern or southern, eastern or
western.
For a longer discussion on the meaning of the word "Nordic", see
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq21.html#2.1
6. "Then which are the 'Scandinavian' countries?"
If you ask a "Scandinavian", they are Denmark, Norway, Sweden and
perhaps Iceland (the ancient lands of Norsemen). In
non-Scandinavian literature, such as Anglo-Saxon, Finland is often
included in the concept because of cultural similarities, a common
history and simple convenience. Correct or not, it is fairly
common to use "Scandinavian" and "Nordic" interchangeably.
For a number of dictionary definitions and a discussion of the
origins and meanings of the word "Scandinavia", see
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq21.html#2.1.3
7. "Why are Finns and Swedes constantly quarreling in this
newsgroup?"
Good question. Mainly because some Finns feel there have been
injustices committed against Finns by Swedes either in the past or
in present-day Sweden, and because some Swedes disagree with a
stubborn enthusiasm and feel they must protect Sweden's reputation
from Finnish misinformation.
It must be added the Finns who engage in this quarrel appear to be
a minority, although a noisy one, and that many Finns disagree
with them heartily.
At the root of the debate lie the facts that Finland was a part of
Sweden for about 600 years (1155-1809), and that in the 1960's and
70's a considerable number of Finns immigrated to Sweden in search
of a job. In Finland, this has created a slightly uneasy
relationship with Sweden (a fact of which many Swedes are
completely unaware), and the unfortunate truth is that Finns are
the initiators of the flame-wars in s.c.nordic.
But if some Finns could fairly be said to be suffering from an
inferiority complex towards Sweden, the traditional center of
Scandinavia, it is equally possible that some Swedes suffer from a
big brother attitude towards their smaller Nordic neighbors that
Norwegians and Finns in particular find irritating.
All this being said, one has to emphasize that this
Swedish-Finnish exchange of accusations in s.c.nordic has blown
itself completely out of proportion - perhaps because there is so
little of real importance to talk about and most alternative
topics would be dull. It does not reflect the real nature of the
relationship between these two nations, which is very good and
warm indeed.
8. "Are Swedes guilty of the injustices Finns accuse them of?"
As a general rule, no, they probably are not, but this is a
complex issue to which there are no very easy answers.
The accusations and answers to them can be summarized as follows:
1. "Swedish masters treated Finland as a colony and did their
best to wipe out Finnish culture."
Historically, the relationship between Sweden and Finland was
never that of a mother country and a colony; Finland was as
integral a part of the kingdom as any, making important
contributions in all areas of Swedish society. That didn't
prevent it from suffering from adventurous Swedish foreign
politics, but this fate was hardly unique for a Swedish
province.
Finnish nationalistic history-writing for a long time
neglected the Swedish period as somehow shameful, giving the
impression that Finnish history only really started in 1809
(or 1918 even) and giving birth to the idea of Finns as a
"young" nation. Modern Finnish historians have long since
abandoned the "colony" myth, but it lives on in popular
imagination.
Learn about Swedish history from:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq731.html
...and Finnish history from:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq43.html
2. "The several hundred thousand Finns living in Sweden are
being discriminated against because they have no official
status similar to that of the 300 000 Finland-Swedes living
in Finland."
Finns living today in Sweden can hardly be said to be
suffering of any form of oppression; but they are not
considered more "special" than the other large immigrant
groups such as Yugoslavs, and this some Finns find hard to
accept. The comparison with Finland-Swedes is untenable
because unlike the Finland-Swedes, the Finns of Sweden are
mostly (*) recent immigrants.
(*) The Tornedal Finns living in North-Eastern Sweden are a
special case; they are an indigenous minority that was left
on the "wrong" side of the border in 1809. They number around
30 000 and many argue that they should be treated separately
from the recent group of Finnish immigrants, who have settled
in the cities of Southern Sweden.
This question of linguistic minorities in Sweden and Finland
has been rather comprehensively treated in a separate FAQ,
found at: http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/Jfaq.html
In it you will find all the main arguments for and against.
Please read it before participating in one of the
Finnish-Swedish flame-wars. But unless you absolutely insist,
it might be best if you didn't participate at all, because we
have had this Swedish-Finnish thing *so* many times already
that it's driving many of us nuts.
3. "When Finland fought its War of Liberation (from Russia) in
1918 Sweden attacked and occupied the Ahvenanmaa
island-province between Stockholm and Turku. The conflict had
to be solved by the League of Nations which concluded that
the islands really are a part of Finland, after Finland
having granted far-reaching privileges for the Swedish
speaking minority of Finland in general and of Ahvenanmaa in
particular."
The Swedish view is that this was a conflict between the
population on the islands and the government of Finland,
which refused to acknowledge that 96% of the adult
island-population had signed a petition for secession. The
League of Nations' rule was that the "mother-nation" of the
mistreated minority had to bring it to the League, ...and the
mother-nation of the Swedish speaking population on Åland
could be no other than the Swedish nation represented by the
government of Sweden. :-/
Sweden engaged in a peacekeeping operation, 600 man was put
on the islands for some weeks, to protect the civilians by
separating the combatants when the war hit also the islands.
This is a kind of international engagement which both Swedes
and Finns are very proud of when done in the Middle East or
in ex-Yugoslavia.
Both in Sweden and in Finland this event is forgotten by
almost everyone, as it lies in the shadow of much more
important chapters of our history: Sweden's change to
democratic parliamentarism (1917) and equal suffrage,
Finland's liberation from Russia (1917) followed by the Civil
War, not to forget the revolutions in Russia and Germany at
the end of World War-I. The revolutions in Russia must be
concluded to be the ultimate trigger.
Read more about this issue, the "Åland-crisis":
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/Aaland/index.html
The minority rights for the Swedish speaking Finns had not
much with the League of Nations to do, but more with the fact
that still 110 years after Finland's secession from Sweden,
at the time when the Constitution for the liberated Finland
was written, most leading Finns had Swedish as their first
language. One of these minority rights, the right to
communicate with State Authorities on either Swedish or
Finnish, is an annoyance for quite a few pupils and students
in Finland, as it is the main reason for Swedish as a
mandatory topic in Finnish schools.
Read more about the population of Finland:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/nordic/scn/faq423.html
Finally: The war was a Civil War (by any normal use of words)
between those north-western parts of Finland dominated by
Conservative farmers and the south-western parts of Finland
where Leftist agrarian proletarians and industrial workers
were in majority. The myth of a "Liberation War" against
Russia do however still thrive in certain Finnish circles.
9. "Are Norwegians wrong to hunt whales and wolves?"
This is another complex question; if the "Great Finno-Swedish
Flame-war" is easily the number one consumer of bandwidth in
s.c.nordic through the times, the "Great Whaling Debate" is a good
second, although last round of the debate was about hunting of
wolves instead.
In the "Great Whaling Debate", two worldviews clash:
- an urban, romantic environmentalist one, to which the whale is a
mysterious, beautiful enigma of the deep seas, the "massacre" of
which is an abomination, and Norway's uncompromising refusal to
yield to international pressure a red cloth;
- and a matter-of-factly, utilitarian, and stubbornly patriotic
Norwegian one that views whales as a natural resource that has to
be "harvested" like the elks of Nordic forests, the "slaughter" to
be no crueler than butchering of cows or pigs, and considers the
whole issue a matter of principle and national pride - not giving
in to a foreign propaganda assault no matter will happen.
To one group, the whale is a cultural icon familiar only from TV;
to the other, a large edible mammal and a part of a traditional
way of life. The whalers view anti-whalers as deluded city-kids,
out-of-touch with the realities of nature and traditional ways of
life; and the anti- whalers view whalers as redneck brutes who
just get their kicks from killing innocent animals. These two
views rarely meet, leading to endless, fruitless arguing in which
no communication occurs, rather as in the Swedish-Finnish issue.
Although both camps are probably equally biased and emotional
about the subject, years of experience has shown that anti-whalers
tend to be less familiar with the facts and therefore easy prey to
the average Norwegian who learns many of these things already at
school.
The main, simple misunderstanding seems to lie in believing that
all whales are endangered, which is not the case. The Norwegians
hunt around 700 (?) Minke whales yearly, from a population of
around 70 000 (?) in the northern Atlantic which, it is claimed,
doesn't put the species into jeopardy; they don't hunt the rare
species such as the blue whale or bowhead whale (which the USA
does hunt).
This topic is not yet covered by the main FAQ, but if you feel an
irresistible urge to moralize to the Norwegians, you might want to
take the time to familiarize yourself at least with for instance
the following Norwegian website that contains whaling information
before posting: http://www.highnorth.no/
END OF FAQ
--
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
s-mail: Rådmansgatan 23f, 211 46 Malmö, Sweden
www: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~jmo/
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