Re: Eurostar electrical and signalling

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:50:35 +0000 (UTC), Hans-Joachim Zierke
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>Arthur Figgis schrieb:
>
>
>> Rebuilding the infrastructure for double deck would be nice, but
>> realistically it is too expensive in the short-term, masively
>> disruptive, and there are questions as to if the UK still has the
>> capability for that sort of project (Thameslink 2000 is moribund,
>> Crossrail is on its millionth feasibility study, there is the saga of
>> the Ledburn Crossovers, the WCML upgrade drags on).
>
>I don't know the most recent numbers, but some years ago, UK figures for
>transport infrastructure investment used to be pretty average.

Does this allow for the huge increase in costs over the past few
years? The point isn't how much is spent, as what it is spent on. It
would be interesting to see how much a particular item costs in
different countries. If you have EUR1m to spend, you get different
results if you spend it on concrete to if you spend it on lawyers.

>The only difference to the EU average used to be, that there was almost
>no investment into rail, and quite some investment into road.
>
>He who seeds roads will harvest road traffic...
>
>
>> While there may not be much rail usage across the country as a whole,
>> the commuters there are all want to arrive at the same London (Leeds,
>> Manchester, Birmingham...) stations at the same time each morning, and
>> this is where and when the congestion is. Many more trains could
>> possibly be run in parts of Scotland, but no more will fit through the
>> junctions and platforms at London Bridge at 08.30.
>
>And do you really think, that this situation is different in other EU
>countries?

Not really, but the will to do something about it might be, I don't
know. I've seen claims that the average commute in the UK is longer
than elsewhere, but I've no idea if it is true. ICBW, but I thought it
is not that unusual for people to live in city centres on the
continent? Also, the UK is very much London-oriented. France is
supposed to be similar, but I think Germany is more regionalised?

>Last time I checked, the worst congestion problem in Germany was in the
>Munich S-Bahn city tunnel, and not on a typical PEG route.
>http://www.heukelbach.de/39707-KleinGrabow-PEG_T8.htm
>
> 
>
>>>Since ticket prices are the highest in the EU by quite a margin, one
>>>might think that British customers would demand /better/ accomodation.
>> 
>> This is Britain, where it seems people would rather have a promise of
>> lower taxes than decent public services.
>
>
>That's why your prime minister is still John Major.
>Or not?
>AFAIK, the election results for the Tories are commonly explained by the
>fact, that the voters DIDN'T like the result of such policy?

Erm, no. In 1997 a significant number of people simply voted for
"anyone else but the Tories", as they had been in power too long, were
seen as corrupt (by British standards), and had generally lost the
plot. They then became the opposition, and since then have been so
busy fighting themselves they have ceased to be a viable alternative
to Labour.

A current debate here is about funding education. The debate is very
much about who pays, not how to improve it.

>> Most people in the UK don't
>> use rail for commuting, and those that do (effectively) have no choice
>> without giving up their jobs (driving in central London is an absolute
>> last resort), so many non-passengers ask why the taxpayer should  pay
>> for public transport for "other people". 
>
>The amount of investment into transport for other people isn't much
>different to other EU countries. It just used to happen that it was all
>for roads.

Sadly, many people believe railways simply aren't value for money any
more. Why pay for the railway to install a hugely expensive crossover
on the WCML, if it then has to be locked out of use and never used?
Also much of the money disappears into the interfaces between the
various companies, not "pounds in the ground". 

Even electrifying the two remaining diesel branches in the south's
third rail network is no longer considered viable.  
-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK