Re: Re: Tancredo for President!!!!!!!!!!

It is not  clear if immigration has harmed the US or helped it

in the long term. Such complex and historic events are not

measurable by analysis. Perhaps the only objective measure

is the end result. The U.S. right now is an enormous

power so whatever it has been doing must be working. I am

too humble to claim I understand history.

Some pople argue that Europe (and I tend to agree) suffers

from its timid approach to immigration. Do I claim to understand

all this? No. I am a scientist and cannot understand much simpler

things slightly outside my own field. But certain observations are

common sense and pretty obvious:



The presuure on the standards

of livings of people and the anxiety you feel is the result

of the way we produce and distribute wealth. A labor force

that can do the same job that you can, will sooner or later

attract the capital if money is all that matters. Either the labor

will go to the capital or the capital will go to the labor, either way

you will observe that wages for that particular sector will fall.



Such feelings are often transient and local. People in a small

town see an influx of immigrants and a drain on their resources.

Another (like our Texan friend) observes something else.



The environment is in far greater dangers from things that

most people who claim to care about it  and

attack immigration often don't  talk

about. The way we consume energy, the way we transport

our goods, the whole system of production in which maximizing

consumption is a good thing. (This is so stupid, increased

consumption means increased unitilization of finite resources,

how can this be a good thing?).

Also observe that "environment" is not a local thing. The oceans

are drained of  over 80% of the fish, the toxic gases and

material we produce are  making  us sick and threating massive

and destructive changes in the climate. These are trans-border

problems. Do you really expect me to care about some weak

relation between the movement of people across borders

which is upsetting some of you when I see a day where

our ability to produce food is diminished, our oceans are

empty of fish and the ecological system from loss of species

approaches what biologists call "mass extinction". I talk

to thse guys in my university and other places. They are really

worried  about this and you are worried some pople may come to your
corner of the wood,s to the land which some how is yours and other
human beings have to be "selected" to come. I am sorry I will not buy
your worries.



It is my sharp and clear observation that majority of those

who attackimm igration do not care or see humanity's big

picture and are concerned most intesely with themselves and the people
with whom they have "tribal" bonds of race and

nationhood. I, of course, cannot prove this but it is an observation

I stand by because of the reasons above and my experience

arguing wirh those who share these views. The kind of things

they claim they care about.



Even here,

Please read the writing of those who share your veiw and pay

attention to the tone and the enormous anger and the

language used towrd fellow human beings whose only guilt

is wishing a better life for themselves and for their childeren.

Are these the worst people you can find to sepnd time attacking?

The world is not full of those who wage war and bring destruction and
glorify killing and war? Not full of those who move their capital with
the slightest breeze to the for corners of the world regardless of the
cost to the working people and their families?



This is perhaps you and I have idealogical differences. I am

a humanist in the way Budha and Cristwere. I see man kind as

a spectrum. I consume little, own little and have spent my life

learning. It is easy for me to give to others but I have little

patience for those who  run this world so badly

and ineffectively. I understand people crossing political borders

is not the problem of the world. Your focus and energies, I argue,

is misplaced.

Most of you are motivated by triabl and narrow minded affiliations

and that's why you attack immigrants not because you are

worried about environment, No. Most of you are selfish; and yes

racist.









Originally posted by Oliver Costich 

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:35:57 +0000, drvr

> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>

> >Buy it or not but read the bill again. its target is family re-
>     unions

> >but even these people cannot keep themseleves from letting

> >5000 people who can directly or indirectly make them money.

> >I agree with an end to illegal immigration. I will support

> >serious consequences for lawless behavior.

> >Those who oppose general immigration do so in the main

> >part for racial reasons. I stand on my claim.

>

> How is it racial? It's about the financial drain on the taxpayers and

> destruction of the environment from population growth. Immigration

> needs to get far more selective.

> >Originally posted by Anonymous 

> >> >They should stay here so we can laugh at their failure to
>     get

> >>     this bill and others like it passed and be reminded that
>     racism is

> >>     well and alive.

> >Im not buying that racist crap.  They are illegal they broke our
>     laws

>you are condoning lawlessness short of aiding and abetting.
     


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