Re: Social Darwinism; was: So Long Judge Moore, We'll Miss You

Bob LeChevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ambrose searle) wrote:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (maff) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ambrose searle) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tracy Hamilton) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ambrose searle) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL 
> >> > > PROTECTED]>...
> >> > > > Carol Lee Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL 
> >> > > > PROTECTED]>...
> >> > > > > On 23 Nov 2003, ambrose searle wrote:
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > > > >    To be Darwin's Theory of Social Evolution, DARWIN HIMSELF had to
> >> > > > > > > > propose it.
>  
> >> > > > > > > >    What publication did Darwin do this in?
>  
> >> > > > > > > No such thing. It's called Social Darwinism, but it's a 
> >> > > > > > > bastardization of
> >> > > > > > > Darwin's ideas in natural history in to social theory. It doesn't work
> >> > > > > > > there. Social Darwinism has nothing really to do with Darwin,
>  
> >> > > > > > Wrong. Dead Wrong.
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > I think you are the one who is dead wrong.
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > >  > http://human-nature.com/rmyoung/papers/paper60h.html
> >> > > > >  > http://www.arn.org/docs/odesign/od172/ls172.htm
> >> > > > >  > http://www.gennet.org/metro15.htm
> >> > > > >  > http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0111/opinion/wiker.html
> >> > > > >  > http://www.toolan.com/hitler/surplus.html#social
>  
> >> > > > >  > But most of all, see
> >> > > > > > http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_darwin/descent_of_man/chapter_05.html
>  
> >> > > > > > Again, I reiterate: Darwin promoted SOCIAL DARWINISM. That's the fact.
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > I don't think so.
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > It can't get any clearer--
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > "With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those
> >> > > > that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised
> >> > > > men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of
> >> > > > elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the
> >> > > > sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost
> >> > > > skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is
> >> > > > reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a
> >> > > > weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the
> >> > > > weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who
> >> > > > has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this
> >> > > > must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon
> >> > > > a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of
> >> > > > a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any
> >> > > > one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed."
> >> > > > 
> >> > > > http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_darwin/descent_of_man/chapter_05.html
> >> > > 
> >> > > Thanks for the reference, which proves you are full of shit.
> >> > > Right after the quoted text (skipping 2 footnotes) is:
> >> > > 
> >> > > "The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly
> >> > > an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally
> >> > > acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered,
> >> > > in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely
> >> > > diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of
> >> > > hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our
> >> > > nature."
> >> > > 
> >> > > In other words we should not engage in what is called Social Darwinism,
> >> > > if what you quoted was Social Darwinism.  It can't get any clearer
> >> > > than that, indeed!
> >> > 
> >> > Where does Darwin state that we "shouldn't" do anything?
> >> > 
> >> > Darwin wasn't stating what we "should" or "shouldn't" do. He was
> >> > stating that there are NOBLE "moral" instincts that evolved from
> >> > natural selection, that include the unfortunate side-effect
> >> > ("incidental") instinct called "sympathy," which cannot be repressed.
> >> > But, like Nietzsche and Hitler, Darwin considered it an UNFORTUNATE
> >> > and DEGENERATING instinct:
> >> > 
> >> > "We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the
> >> > process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed,
> >> > and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their
> >> > utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment... It is
> >> > surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to
> >> > the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man
> >> > himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals
> >> > to breed."
> >> > 
> >> > Hitler's project was simply to follow Nietzsche (the atheist) and do
> >> > the best we can to get beyond "morality" (good and evil) and simply
> >> > enhance the process of Darwinian evolution by not giving in to the
> >> > "degenerative" (Darwin's word) instinct of sympathy.
> >> > 
> >> > This is no secret interpretation.
> >> > 
> >> > Just read it.
> >> > 
> >> > http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_darwin/descent_of_man/chapter_05.html
> >> > 
> >> > and
> >> > 
> >> > http://human-nature.com/rmyoung/papers/paper60h.html
> >> 
> >> But Bible Belt fundamentalists, Confederates and the Klan didn't
> >> beleive in Darwin or evolution. THey wre murdering and torturing
> >> people even before Darwin.
> >
> >So what? How does that change the fact that Darwin was also a racist?
> 
> Whether he was a racist by modern standards was not in dispute, nor is
> it relevant.  The issue was whether he promoted "Social Darwinism"

He promoted the idea that one race has been made superior to another
via natural selection.

Call that Social Darwinism, Racism, The Bell Curve, or the Kitchen
Sink, it is what he promoted.

Searle

> 
> lojbab