Re: Social Darwinism; was: So Long Judge Moore, We'll Miss You

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (ambrose searle) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tracy Hamilton) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ambrose searle) wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > Carol Lee Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > > > On 23 Nov 2003, ambrose searle wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > >    To be Darwin's Theory of Social Evolution, DARWIN HIMSELF had to
> > > > > > > propose it.
>  
> > > > > > >    What publication did Darwin do this in?
>  
> > > > > > No such thing. It's called Social Darwinism, but it's a bastardization of
> > > > > > Darwin's ideas in natural history in to social theory. It doesn't work
> > > > > > there. Social Darwinism has nothing really to do with Darwin,
>  
> > > > > Wrong. Dead Wrong.
> > > > 
> > > > I think you are the one who is dead wrong.
> > > > 
> > > >  > http://human-nature.com/rmyoung/papers/paper60h.html
> > > >  > http://www.arn.org/docs/odesign/od172/ls172.htm
> > > >  > http://www.gennet.org/metro15.htm
> > > >  > http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0111/opinion/wiker.html
> > > >  > http://www.toolan.com/hitler/surplus.html#social
>  
> > > >  > But most of all, see
> > > > > http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_darwin/descent_of_man/chapter_05.html
>  
> > > > > Again, I reiterate: Darwin promoted SOCIAL DARWINISM. That's the fact.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't think so.
> > > 
> > > It can't get any clearer--
> > > 
> > > "With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those
> > > that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised
> > > men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of
> > > elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the
> > > sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost
> > > skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is
> > > reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a
> > > weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the
> > > weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who
> > > has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this
> > > must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon
> > > a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of
> > > a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any
> > > one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed."
> > > 
> > > http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_darwin/descent_of_man/chapter_05.html
> > 
> > Thanks for the reference, which proves you are full of shit.
> > Right after the quoted text (skipping 2 footnotes) is:
> > 
> > "The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly
> > an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally
> > acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered,
> > in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely
> > diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of
> > hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our
> > nature."
> > 
> > In other words we should not engage in what is called Social Darwinism,
> > if what you quoted was Social Darwinism.  It can't get any clearer
> > than that, indeed!
> 
> Where does Darwin state that we "shouldn't" do anything?
> 
> Darwin wasn't stating what we "should" or "shouldn't" do. He was
> stating that there are NOBLE "moral" instincts that evolved from
> natural selection, that include the unfortunate side-effect
> ("incidental") instinct called "sympathy," which cannot be repressed.
> But, like Nietzsche and Hitler, Darwin considered it an UNFORTUNATE
> and DEGENERATING instinct:
> 
> "We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the
> process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed,
> and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their
> utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment... It is
> surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to
> the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man
> himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals
> to breed."
> 
> Hitler's project was simply to follow Nietzsche (the atheist) and do
> the best we can to get beyond "morality" (good and evil) and simply
> enhance the process of Darwinian evolution by not giving in to the
> "degenerative" (Darwin's word) instinct of sympathy.
> 
> This is no secret interpretation.
> 
> Just read it.
> 
> http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/charles_darwin/descent_of_man/chapter_05.html
> 
> and
> 
> http://human-nature.com/rmyoung/papers/paper60h.html

But Bible Belt fundamentalists, Confederates and the Klan didn't
beleive in Darwin or evolution. THey wre murdering and torturing
people even before Darwin.

"My correspondent thinks with Mr. Jefferson, that Jehovah has no
attributes that will harmonize with slavery; and that all men are born
free and equal.  Now, I say let him throw away his Bible as Mr.
Jefferson did his and then they will be fit companions.  But never
disgrace the Bible by making Mr. Jefferson its expounder, nor Mr.
Jefferson by deriving his sentiments from it.  Mr. Jefferson did not
bow to the authority of the Bible, and on this subject I do not bow to
him."

[Rev. Thornton Stringfellow, D.D., in "Scriptural View of Slavery," a
work showing that the Bible sanctions slavery, from John E. Remsburg,
"Six Historic Americans. Chapter 2: Thomas Jefferson"]
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/chapter_2.html

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy
Scriptures, both by precept and example."
[Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina]

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many
regulating it.  It is not then, we conclude, immoral."
[Rev. Alexander Campbell]

"The extracts from Holy Writ unequivocally assert the right of
property in slaves."
[Rev. E.D. Simms, professor, Randolph-Macon College]

"I draw my warrant from the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments
to hold the slave in bondage."
[Rev. Thomas Witherspoon, Presbyterian, of Alabama]

"In another area of human rights, many Christian clergymen advocated
slavery. Historian Larry Hise notes in his book 'Pro-Slavery' that
ministers 'wrote almost half of all defenses of slavery published in
America.'  He lists 275 men of the cloth who used the Bible to prove
that white people were entitled to own black people as work animals."
[James A. Haught, 'Holy Horrors']
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879755784/

"The delegates of the annual conference are decidedly opposed to
modern abolitionism, and wholly disclaim any right, wish, or intention
to interfere in the civil and political relation between master and
slave in the slave-holding states of the union."
[Methodist Episcopal Church, Statement of the General Conference,
Cincinnati, May 1836]

Slavery, segregation and the Bible
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF8&selm=36717622.38996%40news.ala.net
http://www.dovelink.com/News/archives/Feb1999/Feb161999.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_slav.htm
http://www.commonlink.com/~chiron_rising/race/inter.html 
http://www.multiracial.com/projects/hallofshame.html 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_mar3.htm 
http://www.webcom.com/~intvoice/add_site.html
http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/History/U_S__History/Slavery/
http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/History/By_Subject/Slavery/Atlantic_Slave_Trade/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Subject=Slavery/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Subject=Segregation/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Subject=Lynching/

Slavery
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Slavery&sa=N&tab=gn

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Slavery&sa=N&tab=nw

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Slavery&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Slavery&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en

Lynching
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Lynching&sa=N&tab=gn

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Lynching&sa=N&tab=nw

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Lynching&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Lynching&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en

Segregation
http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Segregation&sa=N&tab=gn

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Segregation&sa=N&tab=nw

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Segregation&sa=N&tab=wd&cat=gwd%2FTop

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Segregation&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en