Re: Is Jesus honored when people make a lie in His honor?

Emailed too.  "Raymond E. Griffith" wrote:

> Jon Houts wrote :
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Scott Bryce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>> Jon Houts wrote:

Just to be on the record, I think that some people
just *Nneeeeeeeeeeeed* to have something to
be against and I think this is a stupid issue to take
issue with.  I can't see how Jer:10 speaks of
anything but a *wrought* item, product of
craftsmen and smelters, pointedly *not* pointedly
a simple tree, however adorned.

And furthermore, if I were to decorate my house
with ancient sculptures, and one of them happened
to be a gilt calf that looked pretty on the end table,
I can't seriously be considered to be in idolatry by
people of reasonable intellect.

But perhaps I'm forgetting that this here Christmas
debate is a custom, and *some*one had to draw
the short straws?

> >>>> Actually, Jeremiah's talking about an idol
> >>>> carved of wood, covered in gold (and
> >>>> silver) leaf.

> >>> Oh, there you go throwing monkey wrenches
> >>> into people's arguments by correctly
> >>> interpreting scripture!

> >> Incorrect: you miss the point. The shape of
> >> the idol is not mentioned, because it's
> >> irrelevant.

> > Right. The shape isn't important, but it is "shaped," not whole, and
> > condemning the use of Christmas trees using this verse is a leap.

> >> If the heathen brought their idol inside
> >> whole, rather than carved, then Jeremiah's
> >> condemnation is equally applicable.

> > Sure, but he's referring to idols.  I've had potted palm trees in my home
> > before, and I have some figurines carved of wood even now (and a Christmas
> > tree, too...but that's not really a tree, it's steel and plastic).  But,
> > none of them are idols.

> Which I believe satisfies all requirements. We are not "learning the way of
> the heathen" by bringing a tree or a statue into the house any more than we
> are if we were to eat "meat offered to idols" (as in 1 Corinthians 8-9).

> The Christmas tree is not an idol. It is not worshipped. It is not prayed
> to, or expected to intercede for us. It is a symbol only, albeit a special
> one. It is true that the world has rather taken to it, misused and
> misunderstood it (like it does any real spiritual value).

I think that beyond all the current nonsense
about heathen roots behind the Christmas tree,
there probably *is* an issue of people coming
dangerously close to worshipping the tree and/or
other trappings of the Christmas buying season.
While they certainly wouldn't ask it to intercede,
there are other ways to raise up something as a
god.  Looking to something to cause you
happiness is giving that thing spiritual value.

> But the world's misuse of
> this symbol is no reason for me to not use it.

Unless it causes scandal, causes others to falter.

> The more dangerous idols are those which are unseen, the idols of the heart.
> Greed, lust, even legalism can be idols. Some people serve money. Some serve
> their jobs. Some serve their "faith". Whatever is put before the Lord
> Himself can be an idol.

I think this season is itself a bit of an idol, along
with its various individual trappings such as trees,
muzak, and the present orgy.  People essentially
worship it, sacrificing their credit to it every year.

Uh oh, I think I'm getting into the Christmas spirit!

Bah HUMBUG! ____________________Marty