On Knowing History (was Re: HUMOUR> General History of French Warfare)

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Paul Danaher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> Well, I suppose "simplistic" is meant to be payback for
>> "ignorant". I'm happy to swallow it as such. However, I'm
>> afraid I find what you say---French and American meddling
>> in south Vietnamese politics---as utterly simplistic. The
>> US created South Vietnam out of the French defeat at Dienbienphu.
>> So, duh, you *betcha* the US "meddled".
>
>The meddling was much further-reaching than this, whatever view you take of
>Diem's assassination.
>Quoting from http://hnn.us/articles/1717.html
>Beschloss records a conversation Johnson had with Donald Cook on November
>30, 1963, in which LBJ complained that we needed a new ambassador to replace
>Henry Cabot Lodge who won't want to "make Vietnam into America overnight."
>This sounds unnervingly familiar just at the moment.
>

Heh, "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" or something like
that <wg>. Even *Alexander the Great* got bogged down in the area now known as
Afghanistan <wg>.


But I'm studying for my Asian History Final <g>: (beginning of Medieval period
only, only up to Mughal period in India):

So,   N. Vietnam                                      S. Vietnam
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
         - Conquered by Chinese in Wu period (100 BC) for 1,000 years
                   (but they never really controlled the south, which by
default 
                        was "conquered" by India, why French called it
"IndoChina")
          - history of resistence:
                  - series of revolts, most famous led by teh Trung sisters in
39 AD
                         - regained its independence after the fall of the Tang
dynasty
                               - had to repel the Mongols, the Ming, and the
Manchus
                                    [2,000 years of chronic war, 
                                            prob. "contributing to Vietnamese
aggressiveness"*]
          - points of divisions:
                     - north vs. south
                             China in north: Confucian Classics exam system
                                          - gradually moving south
                                        111 BC - 939 AD: Occupied by China,
thrown out by Le
                                        900s - 1427 - Occupied by Dai Veit,
Chinese thrown out                                                             
           *again* (founding of Le Dynasty)
                                        1600s-1700s - Trinh
                             India in south:
                                    -    0 - 100s AD: Funan (Indian) [earlier?]
                                    -     100s - 550: - Funan & Champa
                                    -     550 - 1471: - Champa (Hindu)
                                    -              ?
                                    - 1500s - 1802: - Nguyen (with Tayson
unification in 1789)
                                      [1600s: Chongs the "mountain people" (S.
Viet) defeat N.                                                             
Vietnam, but are squeezed out by the                                           
                  Khmers from the South]
                                                            [Khmers prob.
originally migrated from S.                                                    
          China around 100 BC, into Cambodia,                                  
                            and established in Anghor by 7th century]
                     - uplands (mountains) vs. lowlands (coastal)
                                         - "natives" vs. lowland settlers
                     - court vs. village
                                  "the laws of the emperor bow to the customs
of the village"
                             - courts: history of collaborating with foreigners
(the elite)
                                     -Confucian influence, such as filial
piety, duty, self-sacrifice
                                         - male-oriented
                                      - villages: see the court as negative, 
                                              - Buddhist, animistic (ghosts);
(some Taoism)
                                              - female-oriented
                                              - surrounded by hedgeways
("thickets")



Murphy, Rhoads. A History of Asia.4th Ed. Addison-Wesley, 2003. ISBN:
0-321-10496-X
Nguyen Du. The Tale of Kieu. Yale University, 1983. ISBN: 0-300-04051-2
                        - The main point seems to be the effortless blending of
Confucian, Buddhist, Taoist, and animistic beliefs in a single person, a
characteristic of Vietnam, which has always fiercely maintained their
*separate* cultural identity.
'

Stainless Steel Streetrat
-----------------------------------
"Living is the best revenge"  - Conan the Barbarian