Re: Burning questions about the Ring's symbolism and leitmotifs

"Derrick Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> [snipped - original post is below]
> If you are saying that Alberich, Wotan and Mime act mainly according to
> "feeling", or what Wagner's contemporaries would have called "sentiment",
> then I disagree.  Not only is Alberich rational, it is with his appearance
> that reflective thought enters the world of the "Ring".
---------------------------------------------------------

No, not "sentiment."  Alberich, Wotan, Mime, etc., etc., are motivated initially
and principally by their *emotions* rather than their intellect.  That the
rational with them kicks in later is beside the point (my point).  Loge, on the
other hand, is motivated initially and principally by thought (i.e., intellect),
not emotion.  With him, emotion is an after-the-fact byproduct.

--
ACD
http://acdouglas.com
------------------- original post -------------------
"Derrick Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:18:16 +0000, A.C. Douglas wrote:
>
> > "Mike Scott Rohan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd dispute this and similar posts strongly, I'm afraid.
> >> Semi-favourable views of Loge have been common for a while, notably
> >> Wieland Wagner's much-quoted view of him as "the Ring's only
> >> intellectual". Personally, I think this throws an interesting and
> >> rather chilling light on Wieland's standards. Loge is a thinker, yes;
> >> but not a man of abstract ideas, only a schemer, a plotter, an
> >> intriguer. His mockery and provocation derive from nothing so detached
> >> as cynicism or nihilism. He has a strong, selfish purpose, and its evil
> >> nature becomes more evident if one considers his origins.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I think you're misreading Wieland's assessment a bit.  By his calling
> > Loge "the _Ring_'s only intellectual," he was not adducing a
> > semi-favorable view of Loge. Rather, he was making the distinction
> > between Loge and the rest of the _Ring_ crew who act principally on
> > *feeling* as opposed to thought, Alberich, Wotan, and Mime very much
> > included.  That Loge is a "schemer, a plotter, an intriguer" there's no
> > question.  But that scheming, plotting, and intriguing, I think, issue
> > from a deep cynicism aspiring to nihilism.  I'll not dispute your
> > conclusion by your arguing from original sources (you know what I think
> > about that sort of thing), but in the _Rheingold_ itself, arguing from
> > music and text, I think it's clear Wagner saw Loge as the supreme cynic;
> > even the Platonic Archetype of Cynic.  Though the consequences of Loge's
> > machinations may be labeled evil, and in bourgeois terms his intent may
> > be "evil," evil qua evil, I think, has no home in Loge's character as
> > drawn by Wagner.
> >
> >
> If you are saying that Alberich, Wotan and Mime act mainly according to
> "feeling", or what Wagner's contemporaries would have called "sentiment",
> then I disagree.  Not only is Alberich rational, it is with his appearance
> that reflective thought enters the world of the "Ring".
>
> Wotan too is a rational being, although he acts more on the basis of
> belief than reason, not least belief in himself.  Wotan is doomed, one
> might say, when he no longer believes in himself.  Mime is rational like
> Alberich, although he lacks his brother's courage and intelligence, and he
> is like Loge a schemer.
>
> I agree with you about Loge as "the supreme cynic".
>
> -- 
> Derrick Everett   (deverett at c2i.net)
> ==== Writing from  59°54'N 10°36'E ====
> http://home.c2i.net/monsalvat/index.htm
>
>