Re: Burning questions about the Ring's symbolism and leitmotifs

"Mike Scott Rohan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> [snipped - original post is below]
> I'd dispute this and similar posts strongly, I'm afraid. Semi-favourable
> views of Loge have been common for a while, notably Wieland Wagner's
> much-quoted view of him as "the Ring's only intellectual". Personally, I
> think this throws an interesting and rather chilling light on Wieland's
> standards. Loge is a thinker, yes; but not a man of abstract ideas, only
> a schemer, a plotter, an intriguer. His mockery and provocation derive
> from nothing so detached as cynicism or nihilism. He has a strong,
> selfish purpose, and its evil nature becomes more evident if one
> considers his origins.
---------------------------------------------------------

I think you're misreading Wieland's assessment a bit.  By his calling Loge "the
_Ring_'s only intellectual," he was not adducing a semi-favorable view of Loge.
Rather, he was making the distinction between Loge and the rest of the _Ring_
crew who act principally on *feeling* as opposed to thought, Alberich, Wotan,
and Mime very much included.  That Loge is a "schemer, a plotter, an intriguer"
there's no question.  But that scheming, plotting, and intriguing, I think,
issue from a deep cynicism aspiring to nihilism.  I'll not dispute your
conclusion by your arguing from original sources (you know what I think about
that sort of thing), but in the _Rheingold_ itself, arguing from music and text,
I think it's clear Wagner saw Loge as the supreme cynic; even the Platonic
Archetype of Cynic.  Though the consequences of Loge's machinations may be
labeled evil, and in bourgeois terms his intent may be "evil," evil qua evil, I
think, has no home in Loge's character as drawn by Wagner.

--
ACD
http://acdouglas.com
------------------- original post -------------------
"Mike Scott Rohan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> The message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> from mpresley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> contains these words:
>
> > Karl Wee wrote:
>
> > > To me, Loge is one of the most fascinating characters.
>
> > Loge is obviously a cynical opportunist, yet in his cynicism he has a pretty
> > good grasp of the "true" nature of things.  And his sense of irony makes
> > him one of Wagner's great characters.
>
> > In a way he kind of reminds me of Lear's fool.
>
> I'd dispute this and similar posts strongly, I'm afraid. Semi-favourable
> views of Loge have been common for a while, notably Wieland Wagner's
> much-quoted view of him as "the Ring's only intellectual". Personally, I
> think this throws an interesting and rather chilling light on Wieland's
> standards. Loge is a thinker, yes; but not a man of abstract ideas, only
> a schemer, a plotter, an intriguer. His mockery and provocation derive
> from nothing so detached as cynicism or nihilism. He has a strong,
> selfish purpose, and its evil nature becomes more evident if one
> considers his origins.
>
> As well as his highly ambiguous original in the Old Norse sources --
> trickster-god one moment, malevolent demon the next, probably due to the
> conflation of very different stories -- he has two major prototypes. One
> is Mercury in his role as fixer and pimp to Jupiter, a common classical
> motif which Wagner would undoubtedly have come across. It reappears
> throughout the Renaissance, often for satirical effect -- Mercury as the
> classic courtier and evil counsellor, whipping-boy for a self-willed
> king whom one can't criticize directly; compare the pairing of the two
> in Cavalli's La Calisto, where the effect is very like Wotan and Loge.
>
> The other, which is undoubtedly influenced by this tradition both
> directly and through Christopher Marlowe, appears in a work Wagner
> deeply admired -- Goethe's Mephistopheles. In his relationship with the
> idealistic, moral but all too corruptible Faust he is very, very like
> Loge with Wotan. Both of them are bound to serve their high-minded
> masters faithfully, but have reasons to hate them -- Mephisto to gain
> Faust's soul, Loge to unleash the bonds Wotan has put upon him (which
> may very well give him his semi-human identity). Consequently, although
> they carry out their master's orders, they do it in such a malicious way
> as to afflict, compromise and perhaps even destroy them, causing maximum
> grief and damage along the way. Mephisto does this to Faust many times,
> notably with Margarete in Part 1 and with the old couple whose house he
> wishes to clear away in Part II.
>
> Hence Loge's disastrous advice over the bargain, and over the recovery
> of the Ring. He deliberately intends to tangle Wotan in a moral maze
> which will damage his authority. You see him apply the same technique --
> destructive service -- to the Nibelungs and especially to the giants.
> His reflections at the end of Rheingold are nothing new, but a
> reflection on the success of his plans, and their possible extension --
> whether he might not reassume his own unfettered shape one day, and
> himself destroy the gods.
>
> I don't feel that's really the ambition of a cynic, or Lear's fool.
> That's destruction with a human voice.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike
>
> -- 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>