Re: And why. . .?

mpresley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> Julie wrote:
> 
> > mpresley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>  
> >> When women look at Wotan they probably tend to take Fricka's side.
>  
> > It'd be interesting to know how you arrived at this. 
> 
> Obviously it's more complicated than my tongue in cheek comment implies. 
> Yet I think most women (especially those that are married) would agree with
> Fricka's views on relationship integrity and fidelity.  I haven't done any
> research so it wasn't as if I "arrived" at my thinking in any formal sense. 
> But I still suspect my view is sound, nevertheless. 
> 
> On the other hand, there are probably many women (as well as men) who
> understand that Fricka's motives are not pure.  She is as cunning and
> conniving as Wotan--but to her disadvantage she doesn't have a Loge to
> council her, so she has to do it alone.  Sadly, she is not really up to the
> task.
> 
> > Why would a man 
> > be more or less able 
>>to appreciate Wotan's predicament?  
 
> 
> I never argued this.

Forgive me, but it seemed that you did when you wrote " When women
look at Wotan
they probably tend to take Fricka's side. "

I can see Wotan's side as well as Fricka's. In fact, my (and the
audience's?)
sympathy lies more with Wotan. His is the 
more complex character and is given much more development as
a main character. Fricka is not. 

As for taking sides, it's too great (in breadth, scope, and genius)
for a "boys v girls"
character decision. 

> 
> > I think most of the those who love 
> > the Ring (male or female) see that Wagner has
> > set up a superb tension in the Brunhilde/Wotan/Fricka dynamic, made
> > more complex by
> > Wotan's relationship to Erde.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean to imply, here. 

Isn't Erde Brunhilde's mother? The step-parent relationship is really
thorny. Fricka
loathes Brunhilde. Correct me if I'm wrong as to their relationship.

 
 I do know that Wotan's relation
> to Erda is multilevel. 
 Obviously the beginning impulse is towards a kind
> of manipulative knowledge, but he comes away with nothing to gain from his
> first encounter with her except the seeds of his own destruction.  Wotan is
> unable to comprehend the nature of Erda's wisdom until much later.  And
> even this understanding is slow to manifest.
> 
> W:      Wake Wala.
>         From your long sleep I wake you.
>         I have roamed the world in search of knowledge
> 
> E:      My sleep is dreaming
>         My dreaming meditation
>         My meditation is mastery of wisdom
> 
> Here Wotan's action in SEEKING knowledge is contrasted with Erda's
> non-action and POSSESSION of knowledge.  And Erda understands that as long
> as Wotan is "seeking" he will not understand.
> 
> E:      While I sleep the Norns are awake
>         They weave the rope spinning what I know
>         Why not ask them
> > It's easy enough to understand Fricka's 
> > attitude
> > toward Wotan but perhaps even easier for a woman to identify with
> > Brunhilde in the father/daughter relationship.
> 
> Wotan's love for Brunhilde is probably the only true love he shows.  It
> certainly has nothing in common with whatever it is he "feels" for Fricka.
It's clear to me that Wotan's relationship with Fricka has evolved
from
an earlier passionate love. As did his relationship with Erde. Am I
mis-
remembering the supertitles?

> > I'd like to offer: Maybe the reason more women don't post to this
> > group is because you have already assessed the woman's reaction, therefore
> > would have no need for contributions that reinforce that assessment? Let
> > alone postings that might contradict that assessment? 
> 
> I'd certainly hate to think that anyone would really hesitate to post on
> this Newsgroup because of anything I might already think. Besides, I'm a
> (small "d") democrat and believe in the value of idea exchange. 

All I wanted to say is that not all women are always Fricka-like.  
I wouldn't  presume to say whether or not all men are always
Wotan-like.
 
Re: idea exchange see the interesting parallel thread started
subsequent to this one.
> 
> >  I think
> >> most men (even if they wouldn't admit it to their spouse/girlfriend)
> >> secretly admire the life of Wotan.
> > 
> > Of course they'd admit it.
> 
> Maybe.  But sometimes in order to preserve domestic tranquility it is
> prudent to keep certain thoughts to oneself.

I guess. But I didn't sit thru the Ring with my husband without
sharing some laffs with him about Wotan's situation. 
> 
> I think you should post more.

Don't mind if I do! 

Julie

> 
> michael gnu/linux#224791
> 
> http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/end-user.html