Re: Wagner and the Greeks

Thank you for this, Derrick.

Also perhaps Siegfried resembles Achilles also in impetuosity,
arrogance and lack of refelection, which causes the death of Patroclus
and Achilles' resulting grief in the Iliad, and Siegfried's own death
in the Ring.

Derrick Everett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:32:16 -0800, Charles Zigmund wrote:
> 
> > Derrick Everett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> > 
> >> ...We should keep in mind that Wagner selected elements that suited his
> >> purposes from contemporary interpretations of the Eddas and discarded
> >> others that did not suit his purposes.  In the case of the Norns,
> >> Wagner was more influenced by the Greek fates (Gk. Moirai) than by any
> >> Nordic tradition; in particular it should be noted that there is no
> >> reference there to the Norns weaving a rope of fate.  Like other
> >> important aspects of Wagner's "mythology", this one was taken from
> >> Greek, not Nordic, sources...
> > 
> > This is interesting. Would you be good enough to note some other
> > instances of Wagner's use of Greek mythology as a source? Perhaps not a
> > complete survey, this would be asking too much, but some important
> > examples.
> 
> A couple of additional points, briefly, both concerning Achilles.
> 
> 1. During his Dresden years, Wagner began to sketch a drama about the hero
> Achilles, drawing upon the "Illiad".  It should be noted that, while there
> is clearly a similarity between Siegfried and Achilles in their secret
> vulnerability, the influence if there was any appeared first in the
> sources, not introduced by Wagner.  You will recall that Achilles was held
> by the heel when his mother immersed him in the river Styx, and therefore
> his heel was not protected.  In most versions of the Sigurd/Siegfried
> story, he is protected after bathing in the blood of the dragon, except
> for a spot on his back which he could not reach.  In the "Nibelungenlied"
> the spot was covered by a leaf.  Thus both heros have an area of
> vulnerability.
> 
> 2. The spear that wounds and heals, which Wagner discovered rather late in
> the development of the scenario for "Parsifal" as a unifying element of
> the story, is based on the spear of Achilles, which wounded Telephos.  The
> wound would not heal, so Telephos consulted the oracle and was told that
> only the weapon that had caused the wound could heal it.  Therefore he
> sought out Achilles, forced him to cooperate by taking hostages, and was
> then healed by the spear -- in some versions by metal filings taken from
> the weapon and placed in the wound.  The story of Telephos is one of many
> that were told about minor characters involved in the events surrounding
> the Trojan war.