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In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
TJ,
Don't blame your instrument and don't use it as an excuse. Maybe I'm willing to believe that manufacturing is better these days and instruments are more consistent or precise. But it doesn't make a goddam bit of difference IMHO. If you can sing in tune, you can play in tune. And if you can't hear it, I don't care how much you pay for your instrument, you won't be in tune. Period. After all, how precisely tuned are your vocal chords fresh from the factory?
If you're out of tune, the problem is your ears, not your instrument.
*****************************************
Precisely!
More important, - how precisely tuned is anyone's complicated ear gear. The frequency response graph of all ears is a well-known shape, but that does not imply that everybody's ear is the same. Far from it. Some are naturally skewed different from the norm, and those daft earphone record players used by youngsters are usually the cause. They are an abomination.
Doug.
TJ wrote:
I totally agree with both of you on what you say about tuners. I do not use a tuner to tell me whether I am in or out of tune.....I use it only as an icidental reference point. If anyone else is reading this thread please disregard the fact that I ever mentioned a tuner. I know about them I know the pitfalls etc etc etc....When I practice I rarely use it and my experiences are based on pure listening and playing without any visual prompts whatsoever.......now having said that........and getting back to the original question....is their a possibility that I might improve or lessen my efforts to play in tune by moving to another make and or model of horn? I there something about my particular model of clarinet that has built into it some inadequacies that are exacerbated with age? From previous reading in this NG I know that some of you here know a lot about clarinets and I am hoping to tap into your knowledge as a resource that might guide me. Thanks again TJ On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:05:28 GMT, "Forest Aten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
MG,
You have made a good observation regarding using a tuner.....
Anyone considering purchasing a tuner, should be sure to buy one that
produces sound....and sound loud enough so that you can hear it while you
are playing. I observe so many people playing "stop the wheel" or needle (on
many of the less expensive models) when using their tuner. Learning how to
play "in-tune" is not a visual skill....it's an aural skill. Having a tuner
that can produce a reliable sound and matching that sound, is where people
should start. Several of the newer tuners will even change pitches as you
move from note to note. This is really great. Most of these tuners also
allow for one to set a fixed pitch. This feature is great for making the
adjustments necessary when tuning intervals.
It's nice to have the needle/wheel when mapping the tuning tendencies of
your clarinet....but these do nothing to really involve your aural ability
to identify a pitch and match it quickly....or to place a note in a chord
with the proper intonation.
Forest Aten
"mg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
TJ,
I can relate to some of what you're going through because my situation is somewhat similar and I've wrestled with the same intonation issues:
I was an excellent clarinet player up through high school and a hack big
band tenor player. I would up earning my way through college playing
sax and continued on with that, not playing clarinet for 25 years. Only
as a hobby though, I do have a day gig. I got a hankering to play again
a couple years ago when my kid got old enough to play. I am 46 now.
I play on a 1972 Buffet that everyone who touches says is a very special
instrument. It was hand-picked for me by Emilo Lyons when I was a boy -
I was small for my age and could really play well so he liked me. And a
1974-ish C.H. Cheddaville mouthpiece with a Rovner lig.
I worked my chops back up on my own and then joined the community band. I was dismally out of tune, especially up high. And I've got to tell you, those electronic tuners lie, they pick up and respond to all kinds of harmonics. What I learned is what I tell my youngest who is now starting french horn: If you can't hear it, you can't play it.
Go ahead, bend some notes around upper C. You can make any note sound like any pitch you want. You have to be able to hear where in tune is. I found 2 ways to do this. 1st, get out of the house and play and listen to other people. A community band is a good, no pressure gig. Match your own pitch to others and learn how to hear it yourself. Second, download some midi files of standard clarinet solos, like the Mozart in A. They are freely available, perfectly in tune, and willing to play the same thing over and over with no complaint. It is a great reference check tool.
Good luck and keep up the struggle. These days, I'm playing more than ever, it fits into my family lifestyle better, and I'm even doing gigs with my kid. I consider this my 3rd musical life so far ...
TJ wrote:
Interesting reading all of these posts on playing older and newer clarinets. What do you think of some of the issues that I am currently wrestling with?
I am 66 years old and I am trying to get both my clarinet and jazz chops up to a viable standard so that I can start to play with various groups or musicians in a variety of settings. As a classically trained clarinetist back in the 50's I played well enough to eventually get a Music Degree(not in performance but in Music Ed) and I earned an Associates degree in Clarinet from the Royal Cons. of Music. But in time I made my living for the next 40 years doing a lot of things but not music and now that I am retired I am trying to regain and improve on past skills.Thanks to Jamey Aebersold and a great Jazz CD collection the jazz chops thing is progressing well but the clarinet thing is another story........and as someone said in one of the posts intonation is what it is all about. If you can't play in tune with yourself and others forget it. I have an Henri Selmer clarinet purchased in 1955 or thereabouts.....and from the Selmer Vintage Clt Site I have been able to determine that my clarinet SN...P5XX1 was made in 1953. I use a WW K9 mouthpiece, a rovner fabric ligature and Rico Royale 4 reed and my instrument has been overhauled every 5 to 7 years in a reputable Pro Shop. I have been practicing about 2 hrs a day for the last 4 months and I am still having trouble playing three octave arpeggios from E to A in tune. My ear and my Korg Tuner tell me that F first space down to E first line and D are always a bit sharp and almost impossible to fix. F# fifth line, the E below that are consistently flat (not because of the lower F's sharpness), as are the A first leger line, Bb......and High F, F# G up in the leger lines I can eventually play these in tune but as someone said you have to practically turn yourself into a contortionist to do it........include flatness in the bridge notes of A to Bb in that list of hard to do but nevertheless possible with alert effort........ My recollection for what it is worth tells me that these were not problems back in the 50's when I played this instrument.
These posts today may have suggested to me that perhaps I should be looking at getting a different or a newer model instrument like some of the brands suggested in this thread. I of course am working from the premise that it is not instruments that are out of tune but players......and that I should just perservere and that eventually with time I will achieve my goal of balanced intonation.......maybe I could shorten the perseverance period with the purchase of an instrument that presents better odds for achieving intonation success.....if such is the case?
I would very much appreciate hearing your opinions, comments and or advice on some of the issues that I have addressed here........what do you think?
Sorry for the lenght of this piece?
TJ
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